Replication of Authentic European Styles

Have heard good things. Does their Kellerbier approximate any one particular beer from Germany/Franconia?

 

Then please be the first.... The possible collaboration would be good as they are a favorite Weisse... Prost

 

The Dampfbier I had in Zwiesel, Germany did not make me think that was anything special. One was all I had, switched to Helles.
http://www.dampfbier.de/dampfbier.html

 

I know that New Glarus Brewing bottle conditions their wheat beers, but don't know enough about their process to say whether or not it's done 'properly'. Serious question: what does 'properly' mean?

 

New Glarus Dancing Man is indeed a very tasty Hefeweizen.

Cheers~

 

Good thread and discussion. I'll just add to pump up one of my favorite Texas breweries. Live Oak does fantastic representations of classic German styles. Thats all

 

I have had a number of tasty German style beers from craft breweries in Texas Hill Country. I am particularly fond of Real Ale Hans' Pils which is very good IMO.

Cheers!

 

Yep, Hans' Pils is great. Real Ale also nails UK styles, specifically on cask (as they should with the name).

My personal favorite that was just released this year as a year-round offering is Saint Arnold 5 O'clock Pils. It was previously released as a one off for their Icon Series as an homage to Pilsner Urquell. In its current form it is a single malt (pils) and single hopped (Saaz) and fantastic.

I just had TX Helles from Community for the first time last week, which is a small brewery in Dallas. That was spot on, and will be getting lots more of that.

 

It is always a pleasure to recognize someone that loves where they live. I know the feeling!

 

What I was thinking is whether they use a different yeast strain for bottle conditioning. But honestly I am pretty uninformed on the matter. The host brewery where we contract did a Weizenbock that had a lot of residual yeast in solution at bottling. They set a few cases out on the taproom floor for a week at temps in the 70s. Those bottles had a true spritzy, effervescent quality that I didn't even realize was missing in so many of the versions I have tried here (and liked quite a bit). The other beers that had been stored in the walk-in cooler at 38F didn't have the same qualities. Happy accident, sure...and Im certainly not proposing brewers set their bottled hefeweizens out at room temp, but the difference in the beers that had undergone that "conditioning" were clearly closer to the ones I know from Germany. Anecdotal, accidental, and very unscientific, I know...but there it is. Need to ask someone with more knowledge about brewing those styles....

 

Reading up a little more on "Speise," which is fermenting wort that is added to Hefeweizens in the bottle to condition -- appears to be a form of Krausening. Also reading that the different yeast strain added is a lager strain.

 

Huh, one of the more interesting things I've read on this board.

I was kind of surprised when you said you haven't found a US brewery that bottle conditions properly. While certainly not ubiquitous, I've had a few that I found to be close to the German versions.

Troegs Dreamweaver is probably my favorite, Kellerweis used to be up there, but I feel as if it's fallen off over the years (admittedly I haven't had in awhile).

I was lucky enough to have a can of Live Oak's earlier this year...and wow. Definitely what some call a "banana bomb", but man was it delicious.

 

I have had a number I really liked. Have sung the praises of Holy City's version quite a few times. But it wasn't until the 'happy accident' at the host brewery where it finally occurred to me that something had really been missing. The Schneider brewers claim that only using Speise creates the correct character, as adding the lager strain creates a 'cleanness' that they find out of place.

 

Yeah, and that also highlights something important - the tendency for a copy to lose some of the detail of the original. How faithful can a recreation be if the name of the style is unfaithful to the source or shows a lack of understanding?

I'm surprised by this. The bottled beers I had from them were very unpleasant for me, but bottle age could have been a factor... and my frame of mind might have had a lot to do with it.

I'm not sure if it's totally appropriate to compare an import coming to the US with what a small regional US brewer is doing. Sure, some of those imports are from small regional European breweries as well, but nonetheless, something that a brewpub makes isn't playing in the same arena as an import that one can pick up in a US supermarket. It doesn't do me any good if there's a good kolsch being brewed on the other side of the country. That brewpub product is just not indicative of the landscape. Granted, the same could be said in the case of imports where the best-of-the-best is what makes it over here. There are people who are fortunate enough to travel to spots in Europe and drink at off-the-beaten-path destinations... and those comparisons would be different than what I am describing above.

Tying this in with the ESB observation about misconceptions, one should also keep in mind that style expectations are sometimes set (or even defined) by what a beer tastes like outside of it's place of origin. Factors like hop levels and "acceptable" off-flavors are a part of this. Sometimes the copy is imitating a compromised product rather than the real deal.

Personally, I feel that American beers do not really replicate English, German, and Belgian beers... but I'm not sure if they're trying to, and I'm not sure if it's a bad thing. The gap is wider in some spots than others. Of the three places I just mentioned, I feel that gap between English beers and American imitators is the widest. I think that one reason for this is that American craft breweries totally latched onto English styles at the onset. While this seems like a contradiction, it really isn't. American craft breweries have taken things like pale ale and porter and eventually re-imagined them in their own image. Rather than looking over the ocean, American breweries are essentially just imitating each other in this arena now. Add this to the fact that UK brews are the most difficult to enjoy as imports due to factors like the shelf life of bottles and the culture of cask beer.

There was a banner add on this site for Founders PC Pils. I wish I could find an image of it to get the quote right... but I can't. It said something to the effect that other pilsners were tasteless. Founders is pointing to the hops as the distinguishing feature of PC Pils - Cascade, Centennial, and Chinook. If this is the messaging that Founders wants to project then they are doing a good job at making themselves look bad in my eyes. I know IPA drinkers that don't ordinarily like pilsners. The marketing is aimed at them. That's fine... but it's not fine to show contempt with the beers you are drawing inspiration from. I tried the beer. It's good for what it is - a very Americanized lager (by Americanized, I'm referring to American "craft" beer).

My personal ratio of domestic to import consumption has shifted to domestic over the years, but not because the domestics are getting better at the imitation game. I've just put more work into finding US beers that I like in order to spend less and buy fresher. A good domestic doesn't guarantee either though. I'm happy with some of those beers on their own terms. I'm especially happy with Bell's for doing something simple - they have remained an old school "craft brewery" and they do it at a high quality level. By old school I mean that they make six packs of styles like brown ale, porter, "Scottish ale," etc. and they don't try to dress them up with additives. In my eyes, this is a rare thing right now.

 

I think US brewers to a great job on Belgian styles - triples, quads, true to style bottle fermented.
My import-dom ratio us 90/10. As a white bier fan I prefer 1/2L bottles even rhough the same bier is cheaper in a 12pk format. The bottle yeast makes a difference to my taste.

 

I am hard pressed to think of a post this long on BA that made me nod in agreement so often to so many different points being made. Wish I could have liked it more than just once.

 

If you find yourself in Durham or nearby, please check out Bull City Burger and Brewing. Besides the outstanding food (burgers!), the mostly English inspired ales are really very good and perfect with the menu.

 

I know of two cases by me where bars got rid of their handpumps.