Rob Tod is a James Beard semi-finalist

We're like three moves to a Godwin's Law violation on the whole Allagash v. Jester King thing, super glad that I managed to kick that off.

Allagash is maybe the most successful brewery in the history of modern craft beer, if you really consider the full spectrum of what success entails.

 

Hmm, interesting take.

Can't think of who else you might put in there. I'm also not as well versed in some of the other legends in other regions. New Glarus comes to mind (which is purely from hearing about them from other members here), and maybe Dogfish Head?

This of course depends on what you mean exactly by "full spectrum".

 

Rob Tod is a legend. Also a super friendly guy. Met him in like 2011 at a tap take over and was happy to chat with me about whatever my drunk 25 year old self was talking about at that point.

 

Sabtos, arent there forums in the Midwest where you can do this. Why is one of the most active dudes on the New England forum from Ohio.

 

I met him at what I THINK was the first BA Belgian Beer Fest. At that time I knew Allagash White, and probably like their tripel or quad, and they brought all these really cool other Belgian beers with them. It was awesome, they were awesome, they continue to be awesome. Pretty much the best example of a brewery that scaled up without losing what made them special.

On a macro level Allagash White and Hoppy Table Beer etc are delicious, consistent, and classic. And on a more micro level their Coolship program is pretty much perfect.

 

Why do mental defectives think people whose usernames aren't registered in their region have no interest in subjects pertaining to national competitions that just so happen to involve someone from their region?

If I'm one of the most active dudes in the NE forum according to your genius logix, you must only log in to read my posts.

I'm sitting in North Carolina right now and there is more Allagash on shelves here than I have seen in bottle shops in New England. Hell I probably have had more Allagash variety than you have. Either way, don't tell me what I can have an opinion on.

 

kinda OT at this point but Sierra Nevada is way up there.

 

I thought about them, but they’re so much bigger, and have also been struggling lately.

Not to mention they’ve jumped on every trend at this point, and haven’t stayed as true to themselves as Allagash.

 

And Allagash's beer is better (SNPA fanatics don't @ me).

 

the only reason Allagash hasn't hopped on any trends is because the current major trend is 100% orthogonal to their brewing expertise. If the past 5 years of craft beer was taken over by local Belgian craze and people started passing up Allagash White to sit in line for 2 hours at Tree Haus for hazy witbiers, I'm sure Allagash would respond.

I also prefer Allagash to SN for the most part, my love for SNPA, Celebration, and Bigfoot notwithstanding.

 

Hard disagree on that one. Schilling, Jack's Abby, Mystic, Idle Hands, and Notch, just off the top of my head, are all examples of breweries that started out with a concept that specifically excluded NEIPA, who are now brewing NEIPAs. The fact that Allagash hasn't had to do that, even with some excellent NEIPA breweries literally operating in it's driveway, is genuinely remarkable.

(Oh yeah, by the way, Allagash also sort of functions as an incubator for new breweries. They're great in so many ways.)

 

I'm not sure you can really compare the two side by side.

I'm also not sure I'd take one over the other, they both serve their purposes for my drinking habits. Depends what I feel like.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding both of you, but isn't @cmoney saying the only reason they haven't brewed a NEIPA is because their line-up provides other styles, so there's no real competition?

So aren't you disagreeing with him by saying that other breweries HAD to do just that to stay competitive, while Allagash has remained steadfast in their approach?

Although I'd argue while they haven't brewed a New England IPA, it's not like they're totally ignoring popular beer geek styles. Their sour program is certainly a nod in that direction.

 

I was just there on Monday and was also struck by the degree to which they just completely do their own thing. Not only aren't there any IPAs, but even with 20 things on tap they don't even have representatives from some of the lesser trends like pilsners or goses. Even their barrel aged stuff tends towards putting things other than stouts in things other than bourbon barrels. I suppose their fondness for fruit additions is on trend, but that's all I can think of.

 

Ummm... yes?

Lots of people started out with a concept that was orthogonal to trendy styles. Most haven't made it more than a couple years doing that. Allagash has stayed true to their vision for a couple decades.

And let it be said too, all of the breweries that I mentioned who started with a concept that precluded IPAs, and then had to (or decided to) give up on that? They're all really good breweries that I like a lot! Allagash is operating on a different level.

 

I don't think Notch has strayed from their vision either. Sure, they have a couple of New England IPAs, but the one's under the Notch name have all remained 4.5% or less. And the Voll Projekt does have a full strength IPA, but I still believe that program was created to brew proper strength traditional styles, such as Helles Spezial.

They're still very much first and foremost a proper Czech-style brewery. If nothing else, doubling down on this concept at the new brewery with their decoction mashing set-up.

They're also one of the few US breweries in the country that gets praise in the Germany forum.

 

this doesn't at all refute my point. And I'm not saying Allagash isn't massively successful and influential. I love Allagash. Just saying it's hard to shit on SN for "jumping on trends" (which I don't even really agree with anyway) when they're perhaps the biggest trend setter in craft beer history, and the market pulled a complete 180 on the style of beer they thrive on. Allagash would be rethinking some things too if witbiers were suddenly all purchased hyper-locally and White sales dropped double digit percentages.

and wtf allagash just started canning pints!

 

1. I'm not shitting on SN in any capacity.

2. They can't be the "biggest trend setter in craft beer history", and also a victim of trends beyond their control in the beer industry, can they?

3. If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

ps. Cans are good though.

 

And it's perhaps also worth mentioning that Chris from Idle Hands said that part of why he initially went Belgian was because he thought that was where the market growth was going to be. We tend to assume that everyone who starts a non-IPA brewery does so out of some deeply held, non market dictated principles, but choosing to do 'something different' as your business plan can be as much of a calculated decision as planning to join in on the current trend.

I'm not saying that it's purely an either/or type of choice, but I think we tend to over-romanticize things a bit.

 

Get this...Allagash White is - by far - their biggest seller. Confirmed by several friend-employees there, as well as Rob himself.

 

First, @oldbean, I see where my disconnect was now. I thought the first sentence of your reply to @cmoney13 was "Hard TO disagree on that one", not "Hard disagree on that one".

I love Sierra Nevada, always have. But it's tough to ignore some of the trendy stuff they've tried in order to stay relevant over the last few years.

Hazy Little Thing, Sidecar, Brut IPA, barrel-aged beers, ditching traditional-style seasonals in favor of hoppy beers (Ruthless replaced Glissade and Flipside replaced Tumbler).

Regarding their Allagash White, haven't they had to compete with arguably the best selling "craft" beer out there in Blue Moon for YEARS?

Witbiers aren't exactly super popular with the beer geeks, so I assume the general public buys up Allagash White. I also assume the general public would go for the cheaper and more ubiquitous Blue Moon over Allagash White.

That is a trend right now, but making your packaging more convenient and likely making it a better deal in terms of price per ounce just makes sense. That's far different than a historically Belgian brewery all of a sudden brewing a New England IPA.