Rotted taste, off flavor after primary

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Hogue2112, Sep 15, 2016.

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  1. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Gents,

    I have been having a problem with my ales and lighter beers (assuming that it is just this, but it's all I have been brewing recently so nothing to compare it to)

    There is a very prominent funk to the beer, it has happened three times in a row now.

    2 batches of APA
    1 batch of AWA

    Grain bills were two row - 6 row
    Limited specialty malts
    Cali - Cali V White labs yeast

    Standard boil, and mash temps.

    The only thing undesirable in the process is chilling. Given the summer here in ohio, my ground water didn't get much below the high 70's I think. We would put in prmiary, aerate, let sit in the basement to cool, then pitch yeast.

    Fermented in primary for 2-3 weeks respectively, secondary for 1-3 weeks.

    Flavor was not noticed in kettle.

    Is this a common off flavor? I did a bit of searching and couldn't find that nice chart.

    To describe it more thoroughly.
    Noticeable in aroma instantly. Stronger with head present out of keg. Back of the mouth takeover, dominants wheat notes entirely (AWA) Only true original flavor left is hop and yeast bite. Can not discern the type of beer. Taste is reminiscent of a tomato gone a bit passed it's prime. Edible, but the intense flavor dominates the sandwich.

    Let me know what other info you could need to craft your opinion. I have decent notes.
     
  2. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Any pellicle on the beer?
     
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  3. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Could be yeast. If there is any haze to the beer, the yeast could be entrained in the beer. Yeast itself can have very umami, meaty flavors. Does that describe it at all?

    Otherwise I'm wondering if you're fermenting in plastic. I have had this problem multiple times in the past. All of a sudden every beer starts getting contaminated. Soft parts such as buckets, hoses, airlock bungs, can harbor wild yeast and bacteria that are basically impossible to kill, thus infecting every batch until these soft parts are replaced. Consider the possibility.
     
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  4. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    I would stop aerating. Wait until you are ready to pitch. Wort, if the post boil sanitation is sound, should be pretty sterile. No need to give whatever made it in there o2. Also, I'm not a hot side aeration expert, but depending how hot the wort is when you were oxygenating, you could be getting some affect from that.
     
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  5. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    One of the APA's did have something that resembled one. Covered the entire surface at the top of the carboy. The other 5 gallons did not have one.
     
  6. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Great feedback thanks!

    Does anyone know about hot aeration? I probably start it around 110ish. It helps cool much quicker (using a drill with paddle bit to whirlpool, then more aggressive to aerate.

    We are doing a double brew this weekend and are a little nervous...

    I think we will aerate with a stiring spoon, gently and at pitching temp. Eliminate the whirlpool as well.
     
  7. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Could this be possibly be related to leftover cleaner/sani in vessels? I tend to follow the rules on the back of the PBW and sani, but often times go a little lighter on it.. Maybe I should just do the "full strength"
     
  8. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Also, in some of my fermentors. I have noticed black spots of mold form. Soak it overnight in cleaner, then sani.

    Maybe these are contaminated? Any tips on how to kill it?

    I would think that there would be some crazy, gross results if this mold carried over. But... maybe it is putting as much of a footprint as it can and that is this funk.
     
  9. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    I have not tasted umami, but it could be a little meaty I guess. I think that is a stretch, and it's been 12 hours at this point since tasting. Will update later.

    I do a mix of plastic and glass. We have a bunch of each, and sometimes the only primaries are available are plastic.

    All of these were in fact primaried in plastic...
     
  10. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    As a gardener and tomato lover I am very familiar with that "turning" tomato flavor, which, yeah, there is still some "umami" there since tomatoes have tons of "umami", but is still a very distinct and highly unpleasant flavor.

    At this point I am leaning toward infection. It sounds like you had one suspected pellicle. And a full blown pellicle can take a long time to develope. You likely packaged before it had time to be highly noticeable.

    Were the spots of mold in the fermenter when the beer was present? If so that is another good indication.

    Are you reusing your yeast? If so stop as it may be passing on the infection.

    I doubt the sanitizer is causing that much of an off flavor.

    Look up the diluted bleach solution in How to Brew, which if i recall used to have dilutions for sterilization and sanitation. Use the sterilization dilution over the appropriate period of time, if not longer. Do a thorough immersed soak. Rinse well and try again. If the problem repeats again I would pitch my plastic fermenters, hoses, etc. and but new.
     
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  11. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    The spots of mold were present after cleaning (from packaging) and put into storage. Got them out a few days before brewday to clean and get sani in them, that's when the mold was noticed.

    I kinda didn't think much about it to be honest, probably should have!

    I will go through the bleach process, and cross my fingers. Maybe I should try a cheap beer this weekend instead of this expensive nut brown pumpkin thing...
     
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  12. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm a big believe in scrubbing my plastic brewing vessels followed by bleach sterization followed by a good rinsing with HOT water and finally rinse with starsan solution.

    Good rule of thumb is if the manufacturer says how much add to a given volume of water, use the full amount. Cutting back can result in wasted product, possible infection or not a complete cleaning.
     
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  13. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    It just seems like ALOT of PBW... You know?
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    My primary fermenters are 7.9 gallon buckets. My practice is to store these buckets with a bleach/water solution between batches. Something you may want to consider doing as well.

    I use a two fluid ounces of bleach (8.25% Sodium Hypochlorite) per 8 gallons of water.

    Cheers!
     
  15. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Do you think that pitching hot could be a factor here? Or based off the above information, you all are suggesting a infection?
     
  16. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    yep it is, but perhaps you are seeing the result of using less pbw in the beer. As @JackHorzempa stated keeping your fermenters with the bleach solution will help and bleach is a cleaner as well. I have stopped using PBW and only use cholrine, hot water and scrubbing with no issues. Just remember to completely rinse out the chlorine with hot water or it will ruin your beer.
     
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  17. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    If your wort is in the 70 degree range I doubt your problem is due to hot pitching. I suggest rereading the above posts and try to brew again using the above methods, then report back.
    It does seem to be an infection problem. and remember if you are using starsan it is not a cleaner, just a contact sterilizer.
     
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  18. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Mold needs moisture. Are you storing your fermenters wet? I store my fermenters upside down with spigots open and loosened for cleaning. I always use my leftover StarSan (or Trichloromelamine for plastic fermenters) from racking/kegging to soak the fermenter before storing. Plastic fermenters never get scrubbed with anything harder than the soft side of a scrubby sponge. Any vinyl/plastic gets rinsed/backflushed immediately. These precautions have worked for me for over 10 years and 100s of batches without a problem so far.
     
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  19. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Carboys are tough to clean but i learned to put some hot water/star san and wash clothes inside then spin so the cloth runs along the walls of the carboy. Your back will feel it but it helps.
     
  20. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    It's time to pitch all plastic and rubber and start over. This is the only way I know to prevent future infections. Believe me, I've tried everything.
     
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