This exactly. The war isn't changing what style of beer people like. That's just the labeling. The fact is that sweeter is more popular with the younger beer drinking crowd (if they drink beer at all). I have heard brewers and brewery owners flat out say that stouts without adjuncts simply don't sell at a level that makes them worth making. It's likely the adjunct that catches their eye when looking at a menu.
Also, if somebody can give me a clear definition of the difference between Russian and American Imperial Stout, I’ll be impressed.
I think the real definition would be that an RIS has a little heavier hopped profile and more char while american has marshmallow handjobs , candy and overall sweeter profile.
My impression has been that RIS has some yeast expression, more char, American has clean yeast, more hops. This doesn't matter anymore, bitter stouts, whether the bitterness comes from roasted malt/grain or a heavy hand with hops, are rare.
Definitely don't think any of that applies anymore as @MrOH said. When some of your top Russian Imperial Stouts have names like Kentucky Brunch Brand Stout, Coconut Vibes, Barrel-Aged Imperial German Cake Stout, and Canadian Breakfast Stout...
I'm really surprised at how many people are responding that the war is a contributing factor. How many people in the US even know that there is a war between Russia and Ukraine? And, of those folks, how many of them are aware that Russia is being a total douche? And, of those who do, how many actually care enough to change their thoughts and habits? And, of those, how many are so committed to change that they want to see Russian Imperial Stouts banished from tap lists and shelves? Sorry folks, I think we have a lot of BAs who might care about the plight of Ukraine and wish that this were the reason, but I don't see it. The more likely explanation is simply that US beer drinkers want stouts to taste like a fucking candy bar.
The war is absolutely a contributing factor when it comes to finding "Russian stouts" in name on store shelves. This was Black Sheep's (in the UK) statement in March 2022: And then in November 2022, Black Sheep brought the stout back to market but changed the beer's name to "Imperial Yorkshire Stout" (even admitting that they brought the beer back in time for Christmas ... gotta have priorities ). These are business decisions and have nothing to do with what I might personally care about (to use your words), and are not even a clear signal for what the company cares about. On the other hand, the war has absolutely nothing to do with brewers making stouts that taste like a Hostess cake with added maple syrup. To repeat myself - we shouldn't be conflating these two different trends. An American brewed "Russian imperial stout" is still just an "American imperial stout" with an extra marketing gimmick rather than a different beer style... despite the style list on BA. The categorization of imperial stouts between those two categories on BA is approaching meaninglessness. If a brewer just removes the word "Russian" it's still the same beer... and if a brewer adds coconut to their stout, it doesn't seem to matter to the general BA user base (and some brewers) if the beer is classified as a "Russian" or "American" stout. Ultimately - if someone wants to claim that they are seeing less "Russian stouts," they need to clarify what they mean by that (and talk about the war in this context can only be meaningful with that clarity). In 2015, the BJCP even removed their American/Russian distinction and started using plain "imperial stout" instead, claiming: "it is counter-productive to define strict sub-types" (not that I'm a fan of BJCP style thinking). Getting back to your point, is this a coincidence with the Russo-Ukrainian war in 2014? I would assume so without any more info, but if someone knows either way I'd be interested in hearing about it.
I shouldn't have framed in such a way that it's not a contributing factor. That's my bad. It's just hard for me to envision that that's the main factor (not suggesting that you're saying that, of course). But what the hell do I know? I'm just guessing.
I pretty much agree with you; people want liquid candy bars, first from Starbucks, now from breweries. But shouldn’t the question be “how many breweries even know that there is a war between Russia and Ukraine?” Brewers name their beers, not consumers, and I would think most breweries are aware of the war, but I really have no idea if that is true or not.
Yes, Brewers are brewing what they want or what they think the market/consumer wants. The war doesnt influence them on what or how they brew beers. But the war does have some influence when breweries might decide on naming/marketing a beer with Russian-inspired art/cultural imagery/identity? The stone and dark lord are pretty solid examples of established brands that shifted their marketing/branding, thanks to Russia.
The main factor might be the same thing leading to people stating that "brown ales have gone missing." People on BA also see things through the BA bubble, and they might not realize how unpopular Russian imperial stouts probably were by sales volume (I'm assuming) in earlier craft days. All that said, the last time I was trying to buy a craft stout w/o added flavors or barrel aging, I was also surprised by how difficult it was to do so. One more thing - When the OP starts by stating: "I am finding a lot of breweries are not selling Russian Imperial Stouts near as much as they used to, now they are just American Stouts or simply Imperial Stouts," the rebranding situation with the war is evoked even if unintended.
Yeah, they were definitely something that brewers made as a service to the die-hard geeks and to show off their skills. It's actually pretty hard to pull off a beer that big with flavors that many find to be harsh. How far can you push it without everything falling apart? Sort of the inverse of a well made light lager where you lay it all bare. Barleywines and mixed fermentation beers were the same. The market has definitely moved more toward appeasing the masses. Adding all the flavorings and keeping them sweet makes them less challenging both to the brewer and drinker.
Might be best to just stick with the old standbys before they are gone too, like Old Rasputin or Bell’s Expedition, things like that. Variety is always good but for the old traditional styles like RIS and WCIPA, the better examples might already be available at most local stores…
I'd like to add that only seeing non-flavored high ABV beers available as barrel-aged is just dummy proofing, as well. "Well, it was in a bourbon-barrel, of course it's going to be a bit hot and boozy". Wheels have fallen off before they make it out of the dealership for most of these beers.
Funny thing is RIS WAS a dessert type of beer back when we all enjoyed more subtle flavors and everything in craft beer didn't go the way of Mountain Dew Code Red. In Soviet Russia, stout drinks you.
And it's certainly not unique to beer. It's likely the same across the beverage industry. Look at coffee as an example. I'm a black coffee drinker. I do not really frequent Starbucks much apart from an occasional stop when a caffeine fix is required but they do not even sell brewed coffee anymore. I recall something like > 75% of their beverage sales are cold drinks. WTF. Last time I checked coffee is served hot . And their most popular drinks all seem to be confectionery beverages. So yeah, US consumers generally seem to have a sweet tooth and the beer category is likely not an exception.
