Saison Brewing Help

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Joelbking, May 26, 2016.

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  1. Joelbking

    Joelbking Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 California

    I'm new to home brewing and have only brewed a few batches of beer. My latest brew is a saison. My question is, are all saisons lighter in color? Every Saison that I have had has been lighter in color. My latest and first saison looks like a brown ale. Here is the breakdown of the grains/extracts.

    Malt extract:
    3lbs Pale
    3lbs Munich
    1lbs Wheat DME
    .5lbs Corn Sugar

    Grain Bill:
    8oz Caravienne Malt

    Hopping Schedule:
    #1 Target 11% 0.65oz 60min
    #2 Saaz 0.50oz 15min
    #3 Coriander 0.20oz 5min
    #3 Bitter Orange Peel 0.20oz 5min
    #4 Styrian Golding 0.20oz 0min

    I let the Caravienne steep 25 min. I added the mash to the wort after adding the extracts. After that, it took about 31 minutes to get it to a rolling boil with a lid on top (using stovetop in kitchen) before I started adding the hops.

    When I poured the wort into the fermenting bucket, I thought to myself that it should be lighter. Then I thought that the fermenting process might clean it up a bit. After bottling last weekend, it still has that dark color to it. Is it the type of grain and extracts I used? Or was it the process that I did that caused it to be dark?

    I let it ferment for about a week and a half before transferring it to a secondary and then let it be for another 5 weeks in there. My starting Gravity was about 1.056 and final was about 1.025.

    As I write this I am trying one and the flavor is a little off too. But being a newbie, I can't quite put my finger on it.

    Any help would amazing!! Thank you!
     
    #1 Joelbking, May 26, 2016
  2. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Couple of possibilities/contributing factors:
    Scorching when adding extract
    Extended boil with extract in their the whole time (look into late extract addition)
    I have some great extract best-practices saved that another member put together. I can beer mail them to you if you are interested.
    Also look up "Homebrew twang". Just saying something taste off isn't enough info

    Extracts can make great beer period, but it comes with its own set of best practices.
     
    #2 scurvy311, May 26, 2016
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “…are all saisons lighter in color?” Typically Saisons are very light in color: straw colored.

    I am highlighting in bold what is making your beer darker in color:

    “Malt extract:
    3lbs Pale
    3lbs Munich
    1lbs Wheat DME
    .5lbs Corn Sugar

    Grain Bill:
    8oz Caravienne Malt”

    My recommendation is for you to use Briess Pilsen Dried Malt Extract (DME) for your next Saison and nix the Caravienne.

    Cheers!
     
    #3 JackHorzempa, May 26, 2016
    warchez, scurvy311 and MostlyNorwegian like this.
  4. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,236) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    A final gravity that was about 1.025 on a saison is some yeast pooping out. They could have been old to begin with, or you maybe pitched while the wort was a bit too warm, and killed a few. Am I correct to presume you also didn't oxygenate i.e Stir, jiggle, blend, frappe, etc. the living crap out of your wort after you pitched? This is the one time you are permitted to do this with your soon to become beer.
    What you might be tasting is that. Another thing that happened is they probably also went straight after the corn sugar when they woke up to discover there is a crack like substance to party on and got stressed out and gave up before the hard work of getting you your 1.01x or so final gravity and the dry finish a saison demands.
    I'd be careful with sugars and when and how much of them you add. Sugar is crack to yeast. Typically add your sugars after the yeast have had a chance to get interested in their primary meal.
     
    #4 MostlyNorwegian, May 26, 2016
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  5. brchapman

    brchapman Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2014 Georgia

    When I was doing extract brewing, it seemed like all my beers were coming out the same color. I attributed it to boiling the extract for 60 minutes and boiling with less water than was needed for the final volume. Once I went to all grain, my beers were the appropriate color.
     
    #5 brchapman, May 26, 2016
  6. Joelbking

    Joelbking Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 California

    Thank you all so much for your input! This will all certainly help with my next batch.
     
    #6 Joelbking, May 26, 2016
  7. Joelbking

    Joelbking Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 California

    @MostlyNorwegian I did not stir the crap out of the wort after pitching. And I did have an issue with the yeast stalling out on me. I will make sure to keep your suggestions in mind for my next batch!
     
    #7 Joelbking, May 26, 2016
  8. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    What yeast did you use for this beer? Also, leave the beer in primary on the yeast until it totally done and ready to package. Secondaries are completely useless unless you are doing extended aging (months).
     
    #8 jbakajust1, May 26, 2016
  9. Joelbking

    Joelbking Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2016 California

    @jbakajust1 I used Wyeast 3711 French saison. I have read a few articles saying the same thing about not needing to use secondary. I'm currently trying that with a Belgian. Thanks for the advise!
     
    #9 Joelbking, May 26, 2016
  10. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    So, @Joelbking I'm gonna go out on a limb and say a FG of 1.025 from 3711 isn't possible. Drink those bottles fast and keep them all in the fridge or you will have a big mess on your hands. That yeast definitely wasn't done fermenting and if it kicks back up it can take that beer down to 1.005 easily.
     
    #10 jbakajust1, May 26, 2016
    JackHorzempa likes this.
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