Saison fermentation temp

I unfortunately don't just an assumption. Belle is French and in my experience they are pretty damn similiar in fermentation specs. I will definitely be looking for some more concrete evidence.

 

@JackHorzempa
Below there is information below confirming both 3711 and belle saison are both var. diastaticus variants. Whether they are the exact strain will take further diving but rather quickly I found that they are at least related.



Milk the funk could not confirm if they are the same strain but with the wink and nod to the country of origin in belle saisons name and the var. diastaticus in common I would guess there is quite a deal of fire here and not just smoke and mirrors.

 

Good question. There seems to be similarity in behavior and flavor among 3711, belle saison, mangrove jack French saison, and fermentis’ new saison strain, but I am not aware of any confirmation that this is more than subjective comparison.

I agree with @wasatchback that 3711 (and by extension, those mention in the paragraph above) are just not that interesting. I am a fan of the DuPont strains, but my absolute best effort in the saison category was fermented with wlp 585. Feel free to send white labs a note requesting they bring this one back. My 1-man letter writing campaign needs help!

 

I have been homebrewing with WLP585 for the past few years. It is a seasonal release. In the further past it was a July/August release but this past summer (2017) they moved it up earlier (May/June). I called my LHBS the first week in July and he told me he sold his last package a few days earlier. I ended up brewing my annual Saison with Wyeast 3726 instead (it has been a long time since I brewed with this strain). This Saison turned out very good but it is a tad higher in isoamyl acetate (banana flavor) than I desire in a Saison; I do enjoy isoamyl acetate in Trappist/Abbey style beers though.

I will make sure this year to contact my LHBS in the May/June timeframe just in case this is the season for WLP585 again.

Cheers!

 

It's not a 1-man letter writing campaign! Listen to the February 14, 2018 episode of Experimental Brewing, on which Denny and Drew discuss White Labs' retirement of 585 and urge their listeners to lobby White Labs to bring it back (at least to the vault). The relevant discussion starts around 42:40.

 

The cool thing about Belgian beers especially, is everyone has their own methods and very different methods can each net very tasty beers!

My method has always been to pitch the correct amount, oxygenate properly, begin fermentation in the low-60°s and let finish around 80°. I allow my saisons to free-rise, and control my abbey ales and other Belgians for the first few days, then let rise. I also use a dry airlock.
When I use Belgian saison or make a Duvel clone, I hit is with a little o2 at high kreusen through the stone.

I agree with others that 3711 is a saison cheat code, but I prefer the flavor of 3724. And I am also more wary of purposely introducing diastaticus to my brewery.
Also a fan of Saisonstein’s Monster from Omega.

 

Well, I listened to the podcast and I am sorry to hear the news about WLP585.

I sent an e-mail to White Labs requesting that they at least make this strain available as a Vault strain.

I suppose that makes two requests?

Cheers!

 

I didn’t know that 3711 can’t be killed by killer positive strains, which is interesting.

Is anyone else aware of other traditional brewing strains that aren’t affected by killer strains.

@JackHorzempa I would bet that one of the many Siason strains sold by the Yeast Bay is probably 585. Doubt it would be hard to find out.

 

I already (ten minutes ago) sent an e-mail to Yeast Bay. I will await a response (hopefully I will get a response).

Cheers!

 

While WLP585 has been my preferred Saison yeast strain for the past few years there is another yeast strain that I like just as much: East Coast Yeast ECY08. I was able to purchase this yeast strain at the 2013 National Homebrewers Conference since the owner (Al Buck) brought some with him to the conference.

The ‘challenge’ is being able to find/purchase this yeast. My local homebrew shops do not carry East Coast Yeast products. In theory East Coast Yeast strain can be ordered from Love2Brew but it seems like they are rarely in stock. At this moment there are only two strains from East Coast Yeast that is listed as being in stock:

https://www.love2brew.com/East-Coas...htm?searching=Y&sort=7&cat=217&show=12&page=1

Cheers!

 

You know that the southern half of Belgium (where saisons are traditionally made), speak French, right?

 

Yes I'm aware of Wallonia, Belgium and the history of saisons. Lallemand is also a Canadian company in Montreal which happens to be French speaking and a rich French history. 3711 got its start in northern FRANCE at Brasserie Thiriez. So maybe this yeast was originally used for Bier de Garde but my point remains that these yeasts are not of Belgium origins and more likely French strains but thank you for the quiz. How bout dem apples @MrOH ?

 

I really like apples (they're my favorite fruit), however, don't understand how this rebuttal in any way validates the argument that use of a French word in the name of a yeast (Lallemand Belle Saison) means its the same strain of yeast as another that has a French origin and the actual word "French" in its name (Wyeast French Saison 3711). Especially since the style in question is from a French-speaking region. Hell, "French" fries are originally from Belgium.

FWIW, I think that if they may be the same, and if not, they're very close. BUT, if treated right, 3274 will take a beer down just as low as 3711. Perhaps most, if not all, saison strains are Diasticus?

 

@MrOH i have never read that 3724 saison is var. diastaticus. Do you have any literature to support this?

 

Only anecdotal that it will ferment down to 1.000 and beyond. Way back in the day, @Homebrew42 posted a picture of hydrometer reading 1.000 on a saison he brewed with 3724 fermented at room temperature, no lag. I've experienced similar results.

 

Last year I noticed 585 had been moved to White Labs Vault, to be released when pre-sales demand confirmed it would sell. I signed up and waited patiently, until a Jan 3 email from White Labs:

Your Pre-Order of

WLP585 Belgian Saison III Ale Yeast

A new year means new strains for The Vault for Homebrewers! We have updated the strains in The Vault which means we are taking some strains out and adding new strains in. We are reaching out because you submitted a pre-order for WLP585 Belgian Saison III Ale Yeast. Unfortunately, this is one of the strains that we have removed from The Vault. The good news is you have some options!


1. You can put your pre-order towards another strain in The Vault. Take a peek at the latest strains (whitelabs.com/thevault), make a selection, then email our Customer Service Representatives at [email protected] and let them know which strain you would like to pre-order. They will gladly update your pre-order and the other homebrewers that have selected that same strain will cheer you for getting them one step closer to releasing the strain!


2. We can cancel your pre-order altogether. If we do not hear from you by February 1, we will automatically cancel your pre-order. However, other homebrewers will not cheer you for choosing this option.


Remember, you may purchase Vault strains through your local retailer that participates in The Vault Seasonal Release program. Two strains are released every two months. For 2018 those strains include:

January/February: WLP076 Old Sonoma Ale Yeast and WLP885 Zurich Lager Yeast

March/April: WLP075 Hansen Ale Yeast Blend and WLP673 Lactobacillus buchneri

May/June: WLP693 Lactobacillus plantarum and WLP033 Klassic Ale Yeast

July/August: WLP009 Australian Ale Yeast and WLP835 German X Lager Yeast

September/October: WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast and WLP773 Scottish Cider Yeast Blend

November/December: WLP006 Bedford British Ale Yeast and WLP611 New Nordic Ale Yeast

Thank you for participating in The Vault. To place future orders of specialty yeast strains from White Labs, visit whitelabs.com/thevault.

Subsequent email to my cries of Why and Woe Is Me:

Hi Peter,

As we add more strains to our catalog we need to look at some of our older, lower selling strains to see if it still makes sense to offer them. We can only grow so much yeast at a time, and as demand increases for other strains, we had to make the decision to retire a strain of yeast and move some to the vault. Unfortunately no matter what strains we choose, some people will have loved them and be disappointed. WLP585 is one of our lowest selling strains and one of the most difficult to maintain, so it didn't make sense to keep that in our lineup.

Hopefully that will change as our capacity increases and technology gets better and we will be able to get it back into our lineup.

Cheers!

 

Note that the letter was attributed to Peter Weis. No idea who that could be.

 

A two-man letter writing campaign! The power of the internet!

 

Haha, I missed that detail. Well at least Denny and Drew gave you a big signal boost.

 

Unfortunately this may be the 'killer' here. It sounds like they have to make some 'extra effort' as regards 585 and if indeed it does not sell well for them they are likely not strongly motivated to keep producing this strain. This whole situation is a darn shame since WLP585 is both a strong fermenting yeast (e.g., no worries about being finicky like WY3724/WLP565) and it produces a complex and tasty Saison beer.

I have not totally given up hope as regards WLP585 but I will put my thinking cap on to come up with a Plan B.

Cheers!

@DrewBeechum