saison fermenting temp question

I use Wyeast 3724 (equivalent strain) a lot. I generally start around 70F and increase to about 80F over the course of the first week, in fairly equal increments a couple times a day. After that, I hold at about 80F until done. Be patient... properly handled, 3724 isn't as finicky as some people think, but it is slow.

If you are relying on moving your fermenter to various locations to change the temperature, note that your wort temp can be significantly higher than your ambient temp during active fermentation.

 

In general terms, ester formation is largely complete 72 hours after fermentation starts. So increase in temp after this range should not produce off flavors. Here's the science behind all of this. Usually you are safe to start increasing temps after this period. I like to wait 4-5 days and bump only 1 degree a day, not sure this is important but it works for me

Saison yeast play a little bit differently. On White Labs website it shows optimum temp for WLP 565 is 68-75. Wyeast list optimum temp for 3724 (its equavilent) as 70-95. So your dilemma is "who to believe". I start my 3724 in the upper 70s and let it peak at 85. My latest batch finished at 1.003 which is about average. As Vikeman says, the temp in your fermentor is hotter than air temp (estimate 2-6 degrees) which in your case I would think is good. If you search this forum you can find lots of 3724/565 stalling problems . . . it seems like time & temp is the solution.

 

This is basically what I do for 3724, and haven't had a stall.

 

I typically will start raising the temperature of my fermentation after 48 hours for normal beers, and 72 hours for high gravity brews. Typically I aim to pitch at 62, it free-rises a few degrees during the first couple days, and then my first controlled raise is to 68 degrees and I bump it two degrees a day from there.

 

Below is what was posted on an AHA forum:

“What we have found here with 3724 is if you start and maintain the fermentation temp at 90oF, the fermentation will progress and complete without stalling. Anything short of that, temperature wise, will lead to a stuck and/or slow final fermentation.

Please let me know if you have other questions.

Jess Caudill

Brewer/Microbiologist

Wyeast Laboratories, Inc.”

P.S. I contacted Jess via e-mail and he replied that he has homebrewed four Saison batches using 3724 and his process for all four batches was to start at 90°F and maintain that temperature throughout the primary fermentation.

 

Jess should come to my house. I've never had 3724 get stuck @80F.

 

Jess stated: "...or slow final fermentation."

Vikeman stated: "...but it is slow."

Cheers!

 

Now I am confused. I've been trying my darnest to keep under 80. what to believe.

 

There's nothing wrong with a slow fermentation for a saison. You can make it go faster with higher temps, but that will change the flavor profile. Not necessarily for the better IMO, but that's a matter of preference.

 

Maybe ferment this batch under 80 and see how it turns out?

Next time you could try a consistent 90 degrees and see how that works out for you:

• Quicker ferment
• Maybe you like the flavor profile better (or not)

There are many ways to homebrew and many ways to ferment a Saison using WY3724/WLP565:

• Pitch at 70 degrees F and over a week raise it to 80 degrees F
• Pitch at 70 degrees F and over a week raise to 90 degrees F
• Pitch at 80 degrees F and maintain that temperature throughout the fermentation
• Pitch at 90 degrees F and maintain that temperature throughout the fermentation

Needless to say there are more possibilities than the above.

Each fermentation temperature profile will yield differing characteristics. The 90 throughout will yield the fastest primary ferment. Which flavor profile is the best is a matter of personal taste.

Maybe time for my old saying: brew the beers you like and brew them the way you like.

Cheers!

 

I guess this is as good a place as any to ask:

Anybody care to share any tips or tricks for using Wyeast 3711 with a guy who's never brewed a saison before? Im going to try my hand at Fatc1ty's recipe that he posted in the new recipe forum this weekend or next.

 

I have a beer with 3724 going right now. Airlock activity stopped after 1-2 days, during which I ramped the temp up from 70-76 deg F. I just continued to ramp a couple degrees a day, to 84, where I have it currently set. On day 7, I noticed slow airlock activity. Today is day 9, and the slow activity persists. I'm just going to do my best to ignore it for a while longer.

 

Peter, you beer will complete just fine. It will just take a while. I used 3724 a few years ago where the majority of the fermentation occurred in the 80's. That batch took 4-5 weeks to complete. That Saison was very tasty.

Cheers!

 

I don't anticipate adjusting the temp again. Just waiting it out.

 

Thanks guys, appreciate all the good advice!

 

That will work; patience is just needed here.

Cheers!

 

I view fermentation times for my Saisons like I would a lager, a good 6-7 weeks minimum before consumption starts, longer if I am dosing with Brett. Traditional Saisons weren't brewed on Saturday and consumed in the fields the following Tuesday, they were fermented in middle of Fall to early Spring, then consumed in the Summer. Not that I am advocating long term aging of them, just that the basic English/American Ale fermentation time frames not be applied to this style. You will be well rewarded for the wait.

 

Overall that is a fair statement. Having stated that, I have made Sasions with East Coast Yeast ECY-08 and White Labs Saison III (WLP585) that have completed primary fermentation in less than 2 weeks and I have consumed those beers after an additional 2 weeks of bottle conditioning. Those beers were tasty at 4 weeks. IMO, both ECY-08 and WLP585 result in tastier Saisons then 3724 for my palate.

Cheers!

 

If the one saison I brewed with it is any indication, 3711 needs no special handling. You can pitch around 70F and let it rise naturally, and it will power through the wort without stalling. It does not have the same flavor profile as the balkier 3724 (which I think adds more to the beer) but it is much easier to work with.

Re 3724: someone told me (sorry, I forget who or where) that what you want to do with that yeast is to ferment it at "normal" ale temps, and when it stalls out the way it is wont to do at around 1.025-ish, that's when you raise up to 80-90F. If you start too high, supposedly, you will have a lot more trouble rousing it from its slumber. Given that I was somewhat disappointed with 3711's flavor profile, I'll probably go back to using 3724 and employ this method next time.