Saison IPA

The crystal malt would not be typical for the saison style, especially not that much, but it depends on what your going for of course.

 

I made a three heavy on the late hop saisons this summer, all using the same grain bill and amounts/additions of hops, just different hops and yeasts (3726/amarillo/citra/pacifica, 3724/ekg/willamette/pacifica, and 3711/motueka/sorachi/pacifica). They are all tasty, but my favorite is the 3726(so far, the 3711 just went in bottles). The bubblegum fruitiness of the yeast combines nicely with the sweet citrus and tropical aromas from those hops. I made a low gravity saison with 3726 last winter that was modestly finished with centennial and saphir that took quite a while to come together, the floral aromas didn't mesh so well with the yeast. So I guess my advice is to maybe add in some amarillo or citra.

 

This as well. Are you looking for a saison hopped like an IPA, or an IPA fermented with saison yeast?

 

If you're looking for a more saison like beer then I would probably drop the caramel malt, especially considering that the extract already contains some caramel/carapils. I'd also recommend Pilsen extract instead of gold if you can find it.

 

I made a saison last year along the lines of what you want but my recipe was very different. Can't remember exactly what went into it but basically it was straight pilsner, some simple sugar, amarillo and saaz for hops, and fermented around 80F with 3711. In a week it was down to 1.005. What I got was a tropical, spicy, dry beer with a nice silky texture. I only mention this because the description of what you're going for reminds me exactly of how this beer turned out. That much crystal would probably leave you with a chewy sweet beer that wouldn't showcase your hops in a very good way and wouldn't really fit what you're going for. I would personally cut the crystal completely as you probably have plenty of unfermentables in your extract. Can't speak for 3726 since I haven't used it yet but plan to later this year but I know 3711 is a beast and always brings good spice character to the table when fermented warm.

 

You can call it anything you want but calling it a saison is a bit confusing to me if you want it to be med bodied and and IPA.

I would also use some late boil Saaz hops if you want more of those peppery notes.

 

Styrian goldings is a pretty typical Saison hop, and is very fruity without any citrusy qualities.

Also, I second the pilsen extract. To test some Saison yeasts out a month ago I did a large extract batch and used the pilsen extract out, and while not quite as tasty as fresh pilsner malt, its pretty solid.

One thing worth noting, is that saisons are typically very dry, so coupled with ~60 IBU of bitterness, the beer might be a touch too bitter. But since you're going for the IPA esque hopping rates, it might be just what you're looking for.

 

Looks good to me. For shits and giggles, I did a little minimash with some pilsner malt and flaked wheat, but straight up pilsner malt (+ carapils ) will let the yeast and hops shine. If you go simple, its easier to go back and tweak the next batch.

 

When you brew extract you feel like you need to add steeping grains to everything, but you really don't. There are a number of beer styles where it's not unusual to use base malt only with no specialty grains like saison, hefeweizen, pilsner, etc. When brewing extract versions of these beers it makes perfect sense to use extract (base malt) only and no specialty grains, as this is exactly how an all grain brewer would do it. When I brewed my last saison for example, the only grain I used was 9 lbs of pilsner malt.

 

I'm in general agreement but would say that if one wanted to use some sort of steeping grain with these styles it could be OK, but with a very light hand, so the beer still pays homage to the style. In a recent saison, I used just 2 oz of cara 20 with ~9# pils and 0.5 # sugar. The cara added a hint of residual, honeyish sweetness. I was surprised that this small amount could make a difference and also grateful that I didn't use more than I did. Vive la différence; they don't all have to be Saison Du Pont.

 

Absolutely, one can certainly do whatever they want, the only point I'm trying to make is that a lot of extract brewers think you HAVE to use steeping grains in every beer, and thats certainly not the case, and with some beers may be undesirable.

 

I think this is due to a fear of brewing a flat flavored beer.Long ago i was obsessed trying to brew complex flavored beer using several different type of malts without any good result.You told me this was a waste of time and materials, and you are right, the best beers i have brewed have been the most simple ones

 

I also think part of the desire to use specialty grains instead of 100% extract is just to feel like you are doing something, adding something to differentiate the experience of both brewing and drinking the beer.

 

I know this feeling of thinking you should be steeping or mini-mashing something. However, I made an elderberry wheat beer using only Bavarian wheat liquid extract and some dried elderberries, and it came out GREAT. That made me "trust my extracts" a bit more, lol. Whatever was in that extract gave it great body and tasted wonderful. I couldn't have been any happier with that beer. Only downside is that I just finished the last bottle a few days ago.

I'm not a saison expert, but I think your revised recipe looks pretty tasty.

I've had the same issue with my stove. I can do a full boil with 4 gallons, but more than that is impossible. I finally decided to cut the batch size down to about 4 gallons and I've really liked the results.

On the flip side of what I said earlier, I do think mini-mashing could be good for you. I did one beer that I mini-mashed almost five pounds, and I've mini-mashed three or four pounds on a number of occasions, and I seem to be getting good results. In fact my success with partial mash aided in my springing for the cooler and hardware to make a mash tun and go all grain (next batch, possibly tomorrow).