Saison issue / yeast question

Yeasts can produce sulfuric odors that are not DMS. Farty rotten egg type aromas, for instance. It can be somewhat strain dependent. They can dissipate over time via out gassing or yeast metabolism. I'm not sure I ever detected DMS in a beer, but have definitely encounter these reduced sulfur aromas during fermentation and they have always gone away. I think they are common in lagers and perhaps have something to do with yeast metabolism under cooler temps. However, for saison, I'd guess you fermented warm, so maybe not the same thing? All just speculation. Nothing you can do but RDWHAHB.

 

Berliner Weisse are known for sulfuric smells during fermentation, but I never taste farts in a Berliner...I think you'll be fine.

 

There are a number of sulfur compounds that can be produced during beer making. As has already been discussed it is possible that some sulfur compounds will be produced during fermentation but they will dissipate (e.g., get ‘blown out’ by CO2) during the fermentation process. There sulfur compounds are only a genuine issue if they exist in the finished beer.

For anybody who wants to know what DMS smells/tastes like, buy yourself a bottle of Rolling Rock. Rolling Rock has a significant amount of DMS and it is there on purpose.

Below is a list of sulfur compounds that are sometimes perceptible in beer (depending on the compound level/amount) along with common descriptors:

Dimethyl Sulfide (DMS): cooked corn, creamed corn, vegetal

Sulfur Dioxide (SO2): struck match

Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S): low level: onion/garlic, higher levels: burnt rubber. Sometimes also described as rotten egg.

Mercaptan (3-methylbut-2-ene-1-thiol): the lightstruck formed compound that is described as skunky, catty, feral, polecat

Dimethyl Trisulphide (DMTS): onion/garlic

Cheers!

 

Add 4MMP to that.

 

Will do! I knew that 4MMP was a thiol but I just 'learned' that thiols are sulfur compounds. You learn something new every day!

Cheers!

P.S. I should have pieced that together since Mercaptan is a thiol.

 

I thought Mercaptan is a synonym for Thiols in general, not specifically 3-methylbut-2-ene-1-thiol. Point being there are other Mercaptans besides the skunky lightstruck one. Though I suspect they'd all be bad news for beer.

 

“Lightstruck character is caused by a photochemical reaction where visible or ultraviolet light (wavelength below 520 nm) makes riboflavin in the beer react with and break down hop-derived, sulfur-containing isohumulones (isomerized alpha acids). This liberates 3-methylbut-2-ene-1-thiol, a mercaptan, a compound detectable at just a few parts per billion, which is similar to the active ingredient in skunk musk.”

More science can be found here: https://beersensoryscience.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/lightstruck/

Cheers!

 

Some yeasts produce a sulfur aroma and it usually disappears by the time you are ready to drink it. Saisons don't need to be consumed fresh. My bet is the sulfur will be gone after a few weeks of being in the keg. I have never had a saison yeast make sulfur smells and have never used Yeast Bay yeast. It could be normal for the strain(s). The Yeast Bay guy lurks here.

Ask @Biobrewer what the deal is. Wait...I just did.

 

Just got done with primary on my HF dreg saison, and I co pitched the stepped up dregs with wyeast Forbidden Fruit. It REEEEEEEEEKED like rotten eggs for two weeks straight, even left a mineral type ring on my 3 piece airlock where it was off gassing. I sampled it at the time it went into the carboy for secondary and there are no signs of sulfur in the beer. It's sour and bready, but no sulfur.

 

How can we be sure you weren't smelling your dirty mustache two weeks in a row? Forbidden Fruit doesn't make sulfur and there is no possible way HF dregs can produce anything less than amazing ever. Just a few weeks ago, you were telling us how magical the HF dregs starter was smelling. Therefore, your anecdotal experience is currently classified as suspicious!

 

It's been about 25 years since I shared a bucket of Rocks with friend. I didn't know enough to look for it back then, but there was nothing obvious to me. In contrast, I have known skunk every since I have known Becks, and I think I have tasted acetaldehyde from Budweiser, both about the same era. Maybe I am insensitive to DMS in beer.

 

DMS is the reason why Rolling Rock is the one beer on the planet that I will not drink under any circumstances. Just awful. I didn't know back in the day that it was DMS. I just knew it tasted like vegetable soup, with extra corn. Rolling Rock helped me stay very sober back in my college days, because it was often what everyone was drinking.

 

Peter,

The green apple flavor in Budweiser is an ester that the Budweiser yeast produces. Budweiser has a very low level of acetaldehyde.

I suppose it is possible that some folks (you?) are insensitive to DMS but I have not read anything about that. I have read that something like 20% of people are insensitive to diacetyl in beer.

Cheers!

 

I don't even think they ship Rolling Rock to Illinois anymore. Turrible beer. Just turrible.

 

I had read a while ago that they left acetaldehyde behind as a consequence of beechwood aging. Are you busting my myth? Either way, curious that it exists at all. They are the most capable brewers in the world; they can make cleaner beer if they wanted.

I can definitely taste diacetyl in beer. It ruined a local brew pub for me once.

 

The acetaldehyde in Bud is a myth that won't die. They don't release the beer unless it is below threshold for acetaldehyde.

Read what Mitch Steele has to say, scoll down a little,
http://hoptripper.com/what-is-quality/

 

“I had read a while ago that they left acetaldehyde behind as a consequence of beechwood aging. Are you busting my myth?” The acetaldehyde level in Budweiser is very low. If the “myth’ is that Budweiser has perceptible acetaldehyde, then yes I am busting that myth.

“Either way, curious that it exists at all. They are the most capable brewers in the world; they can make cleaner beer if they wanted.” What exists in Budweiser is an ester that provides an apple like flavor. The reality here is that AB is purposefully producing this flavor vis their selection of yeast strain and fermentation process.

Cheers!

 

Any ideas who he means when he said "Not to name any names, but there is one lager brewer who operates in this country whose beer has definite acetaldehyde-and I think it’s a characteristic of their yeast strain"?

 

Nutz. It appears that once again, I have been duped.