saison recipe design

unfortunately I'm not at home where my recipes are, but my advice for that strain is use a protein rest and keep the gravity on the low side, oxygenate well, pitch plenty of healthy yeast, and be patient. I pitch at 70F and let it go to whatever it wants, moving it into a warmer room after a day or two when it will want to slow.
if I'm remembering correctly I did a 1.048 saison with about 2:1 Pilsner:Vienna ratio (might have been 5:2) + a small amount of wheat and a decent amount of Saaz the day or two before leaving for NHC. Added a small amount of sugar (1.048 included the sugar) at high krauesen and kept it in a warm room for two weeks. Came back from vacation to a 1.001, dry but full-flavored, spicy, fruity, delicious beer with a refreshing and thirst-quenching acidity that fits perfectly and ABV very close to 6%. It was slightly lighter than I wanted so a few drops of Sinimar went into the priming sugar solution to get me a more attractive (IMO) bright gold color.

good luck...
--Michael

 

“Anyways anyone have a nice recipe they would like to share (all grain please)?” The recipe of a Saison is pretty simple from a grain perspective: Most (or all?) Pilsner malt with some table sugar if you want your Saison really dry. Wyeast 3711 doesn’t require sugar since that yeast is extremely aggressive. A pound or so of sugar may be needed for other Saison yeast strains. I shoot for an OG of 1.060.

My preferred hopping schedule for my Saison (a traditional European Saison) is:

· 2 ounce Styrian Golding at beginning of boil (about 8 AAUs)
· With 15 minutes of boil left: ½ ounce East Kent Goldings
· At flameout: 1 ounce Styrian Goldings

A number of BAs have used American hops like Amarillo in their Saisons.

Now, to the important topic of yeast selection. You already have experience with 3711 which is a ‘good’ Saison yeast. It performs like a beast; my primary fermentations have been complete in less than a week with a FG consistently around 1.001 (with 1 lb. of sugar). All of the Saisons that I have brewed with 3711 have been tasty but a bit ‘one dimensional’ since the spice (peppery) flavors dominate. I get a bit of citrus from 3711 but very little.

I have brewed with 3724 just once and the beer turned out great: complex with a nice mix of fruity and spicy flavors/aromas. I fermented for 5 weeks in the low-mid 80’s and my FG was 1.004 (with 1 lb. of sugar). You will indeed need patience to ferment with 3724 with higher fermentation temperatures recommended by Wyeast:

“Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures at least 90°F (32°C) or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation.”

A number of experienced homebrewers have experienced stalled fermentations using 3724; I think the ‘trick’ here is patience in that you should just wait for the fermentation to re-start on its own.

There are a number of ‘seasonal’ Saison yeast strains available now which make tasty beers and you need not ‘worry’ about stalled fermentation:

· Wyeast 3726 is available until Sept. 2012
· WLP585 Belgian Saison III which is ‘new’ for 2012

There is also WLP566 Belgian Saison II Yeast but I have no experience with this yeast.

I just recently (it is now 1 week in the bottle) made a Saison with WLP585. I drank one last night and it was tasty; that strain is more ester forward (emphasis on fruity flavors). That beer started at 1.056 and finished at 1.001 (with 1 lb. of sugar). Fermentation was complete in about 10 days.

Good luck with your Saison.

Cheers!

 

I just used 3724 in a recipe that was 93.5% Belgian pils, 1.3% cara 20, and 5.2% table sugar (by weight). Hopped with Styrian, Saaz, and Tradition, front and back. The beer went from an OG of 1.050 to 1.005, and fermentation temps reached a max of 78-80F. There is a bit of crystal malt sweetness to it; some may want it drier but I like it.

 

I like doing things like that anyway: it is fun to brew the same beer but finish it with a different yeast. I just transferred my last saison into secondary; it was a 10 gallon batch that I split in half and fermented each with different yeasts (WLP565 and ECY03). I fermented them at the same temps, and it has been a neat experiment so far. I am looking forward to finally having a taste off with them.

 

I was using 3711 for quite a while as my first experience with 565 wasnt too good, many moons ago. I didnt really know what I was doing, though. It was a high grav saison and it stalled out pretty badly (around 1.020) and never finished even trying US05 and even high temps. I tossed some Brett in there and that finished 'er up!

As of now, it seems 3711 is the 'norm', so I've switched back to 565 and I really like the Saisons I've made lately. I've used 3711 probably 5 times or so, and my past 3 or 4 Saisons have been with 565. I honestly think I might like the 565 better. Also, being a competition brewer, I want my Saison to be different than the others and I think 565 (when treated correctly) does just that. It offers a more rounded flavor and aroma with other 'intangibles' adding to the complexity of your beer. I think the 565 beers peak a little sooner though, which isnt necessarily a bad thing, just an observation.

I say go with your grain bill and give it a whirl. Mash low (below 150), pitch a nice fresh starter in the mid 60's and let 'er rise over the first week or so to the 70's. You should be all set!

 

It sounds like you're all set with yeast this time around but I have to put in a plug for stepping up yeast from bottles. Dupont Avril and Blaugies Saison d'Epeautrie use the same strain as 3724 but it is much better behaved due to the brewery conditions it grew up in. They will ferment reliably to completion as cold as 65F (not recommended but they can do it) or finish in about a week at more normal saison fermentation regimens. I'm currently drinking a rye saison that went from 1.045 to 1.007 in 6 days at 72F. Stepping up from the bottle is no harder than making a starter from WL or WY and you get some good beer too, for about what you'd pay for a tube or smack pack.