Saison stalled after second yeast

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by safety_third, Apr 5, 2016.

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  1. safety_third

    safety_third Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2016

    Hi Folks,
    I've been doing my internet research, so I was prepared for a long fight for my Saison.
    Extract brew with cardamom and candi sugar; I am aiming for a high ABV of 7-8%
    I used the Dupont 3724 yeast.
    OG was 1.078
    Initial activity blew the foil off the fermenter. After a week it was down to 1.045.
    I wrapped it in an old sleeping bag and the temperature hovered around 74. It didn't budge below 1.045 for a week after that, so I bought it a heat wrap. That raised the temperature well into 90s. I saw activity in the airlock again, so I thought everything was good.
    The beer got down to 1.040 after a month in primary. It still tasted quite sweet.
    I got impatient and decided to add a helper yeast strain to finish the job.
    I pitched WLP566 a week ago after turning off the heat vest (beer temp came back down to 68-70deg).
    There was a very thin krausen that lasted a day and minimal airlock activity.
    Brew is now at 1.036 after a week with the second strain.
    What should I do? It's been almost 6 weeks. Try yeast energizer?
    I know not to rack to secondary -- that won't help.
    I've been agitating every week or so. Should I raise the temperature back up?
    Pitch a third yeast -- champaign strain?
    Thanks!
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    My suggestion is patience.

    There have been many reports concerning that Wyeast 3724 can be a fussy yeast; it will ferment for a while then stall and then start fermenting again.

    I have never brewed with WLP566 so I can't personally comment to what exactly is going on with respect to this yeast.

    Hopefully in another few weeks your beer will reach final gravity.

    Cheers!

    P.S. FWIW I have personally decided to no longer brew with Wyeast 3724 due to it's fussy nature. My preferred Saison yeast strains are WLP585 and ECY08. If you are looking for a very non-fussy Saison yeast that would be 3711 but I am personally not a big fan of the flavor profile of that strain.
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  3. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    It is too late now, but did you make a starter for those yeasts?

    For this beer, I would bump up the temperature so it is mid-70s and just wait it out.
     
  4. safety_third

    safety_third Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2016

    I did not make a starter for these yeast. Could that be my problem?
    I am also worried about starting with such a high OG.
    I chose 566 because it was supposed to be similarly un-fussy like 3711. Anyone have experience with it?
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, it could. FWIW I have fermented many batches with 3724 and never had a stall. It's slow, but it always finishes for me.
     
  6. safety_third

    safety_third Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2016

    How slow? I was thinking waiting six weeks is being pretty patient and if it has taken this long, I need to be more proactive.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    My last two batches using 3724 (with starters) and hot fermentation (80’s F)

    August 2014

    · OG = 1.058

    · FG = 1.003 (7 weeks from pitch day)

    · Noticeable stall at week 3-4

    · Used a fully closed fermentation (used an airlock)

    · Beer turned out great; very tasty

    August 2012

    · OG = 1.060

    · FG = 1.004 (both at week 4 and week 5 after pitch day)

    · No noticeable stall

    · Did not use an airlock

    · Beer turned out great; very tasty


    My most recent Saison I used WLP585 and fermentation was complete in less than 2 weeks; OG = 1.061, FG = 1.002 and the flavor was excellent!!

    Cheers!
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    6 weeks should be enough if pitching an appropriately sized starter. At this point, I'd recommend patience.
     
  9. safety_third

    safety_third Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2016

    Is there such a thing as too long in primary?
    Is it possible that my initial conditions created a beer that will never finish? That the yeast cannot continue to ferment due to inhibition by alcohol or another byproduct? What makes yeast stall?
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I prefer to not keep my beers in the primary too long (e.g., more than 5 weeks) out of concern there could be impacts from yeast autolysis.
    You will need to 'run the experiment' here. Hopefully in another few weeks the beer will reach final gravity.
    With an OG of 1.078 that should not be an issue here.
    I do not know the answer to that question. The 'good news' is that the only yeast strain that I am aware of that has a reputation for stalling is Wyeast 3724. You should not have to worry about this in the future for other yeast strains.

    Cheers!
     
  11. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Another option could be to pitch some Brett and let it go for a few months.

    The longest I've let 3724 go in primary was 9 weeks. Beer turned out fine.
     
    donspublic likes this.
  12. safety_third

    safety_third Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2016

    It finished! A day shy of 8 weeks it was finally down to 1.012!
    Looks like patience and waiting were the correct answer.
    Slow Party Saison is finally bottled.
     
  13. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    NO! 1.012 is way to high FG for that yeast. Keep waiting. It will finish at 1.006 or lower. Leave it alone for another couple weeks. If you bottle now it WILL GET MESSY!
     
  14. A2HB

    A2HB Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2013 Michigan

    No starter is probably the culprit for the slow fermenting. .078 is pretty steep for a single package to take down. I'm guessing the second yeast did not have enough oxygen left to start it's main life cycle so that's why that one is lagging behind as well. It just needs time but I bet you're going to end up with a great beer, just might take a few more weeks than what you were expecting.
     
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