Saison Starter Shenanigans

Is your question whether you should crash/decant or just pitch the whole starter into your beer wort? My recommendation would be to crash/decant. Unless the starter wort was a part of your carefully crafted recipe.

 

I always try to decant the starter.

Unless... I make the starter in a fashion that will ride with the beer, AND I've timed myself short on being able to crash it.

Generally though, the wort/beer is oxidized to hell and back anyways.

 

I had the same problem this week: bought some very old yeast, forcing me to do a two-step starter when I'd only planned on a one step, and potentially messing up my timeline for brewing tomorrow (Saturday).

Not entirely sure what your concerns are: obviously, you need to wait until the starter has completed its growth before pitching, and from what I understand 18-24 hours should do it. If you're trying to decide whether or not to take the extra time to cold crash and decant, my opinion would be that it's better to take the time. I base this on the knowledge that starter beer is going to taste like ass, and is thus best left out of the wort. But I would be willing to concede that 550ml of skanky starter beer probably won't have that much of an impact on 5.5 gallons of wort. You're probably OK either way, but if it's my beer, and I'd decant.

 

First, congrats on using a calculator to see what you have and what you need. But I'm pretty sure you mean you have 0.75 - 1.0 million cells per ml per degree plato which is an optimum rate.

It probably doesn't matter how you arrive at the correct pitching rate, but it is more efficient making the second of the stepped starters larger (more efficient innoculation rate). A lower OG of wort may help stressed out yeast, but once revitalized there is no reason not to pitch into 1.035 - 1.040 wort. But you are way ahead of the game by actually computing the results of your starters. Also, be aware that many of the calculators have different stir-plate growth-rates assumptions (brewersfriend). Just because you pick the higher rate doesn't automatically make your stir-plate more efficient. You will learn which growth rate works best after several attempts.

It takes at least 12 hours to chill and decant yeast (18'ish+ hours is probably better) but I would take the hit in time to avoid pitching a tasteless liter of beer into my brew. And yes, you have correctly figured out that the yeast don't really care about your brew schedule.

 

maybe there's a specific flavor that some people like to include in their beer that comes from the starter wort of a specific yeast. Perhaps "horse taint," I know that's a popular one around here.

 

Considering the weird stuff people put in beer these days (coconut? really?), a liter of starter wort doesn't sound all that bad.

 

I don't use a stir plate and usually hop my starters...the beer is not overly oxidized that way and there is no need to decant the "horse taint"

Awaiting diatribes

 

The only ‘diatribe’ you are going to get from me is that I agree with the way you brew.

I also pitch my yeast starters. I purposefully do not use a stir plate to avoid oxidation of the yeast starter. In my opinion there are two aspects to having a healthy fermentation while using a yeast starter:

· Pitch plenty of healthy yeast

· Pitch yeast in an active state to ‘kick start’ the fermentation process

By pitching the entire yeast starter I achieve both aspects detailed above.

Cheers!

P.S. You may be interested to know that Jamil Zainasheff detailed the same process in his Zymurgy article entitled The Secret of Healthy Yeast: “I like to pitch starters while they're still very active and as soon as the bulk of reproduction is finished, usually within 12 to 18 hours.”

 

In the same article Jamil also says... "Of course, if you have a large starter volume in relation to your batch of beer or a starter that was continuously aerated, then you probably don’t want to pitch the entire starter into your wort. Adding a large starter or a heavily oxidized starter to your wort can alter the flavor of the finished beer."

Why not quote that part too? If I didn't know better, I'd say you were being selective in your Appeal to Authority. But of course I know better.

 

To those who pitch the entire stater: do you use DME to make your starters? If so, can't you taste the DME in the finished beer? I did this once (and only once), and the starter flavor was overwhelming. Of course that beer was a 1.048 Koelsch, so any flaws were going to be glaring, but still....

 

GreenKrusty101 stated: “I don't use a stir plate….”

In a direct reply to GreenKrusty101, I mentioned: “I purposefully do not use a stir plate to avoid oxidation of the yeast starter.”

So, we had a conversation where it was explicitly stated “do not use a stir plate”.

Why somebody had to bring up the topic of “starter that was continuously aerated” and intimate “I'd say you were being selective” is beyond me; it is inappropriate.

Cheers!

 

I don't use a stir plate for my starters either. I do rouse the yeast manually, however. Still, the time I pitched the complete starter, I could distinctly and clearly taste the DME starter wort in the finished beer. Hence my question as to whether those of you who also use this method can also taste the starter.

 

The way you quoted Jamil out of full context implies that he pitches his starters without decanting. This is not the case for large starters. Hopefully it's no longer beyond you.

 

I usually use a Pilsner Malt starter...hopped with what I'm bittering the reg beer...I figure the closer I get to the main beer the more innocuous the starter (same hops, lightly aerated, same temp, lightest malt)

If you can make a good beer with extract, why not a starter?

Edit: Sometimes I think homebrewers in quest of massive amounts of yeast, do things that aren't in the best interest of the final product (IMHO)

 

The quality of the DME I used to make the starter was (IMO) far lower than the Weyermann pilsner malt I used to make the Koelsch -- and the resulting beer showed this very clearly. Even the wives (who love to drink my Koelsch) noticed the "off" flavor. That said, I once received Schill pilsner malt when I ordered Weyermann, and I could easily taste the difference in quality there, too. Just wondering if others pick up on the flavors as easily/distinctly as I do.

 

What does DME starter wort taste like compared to a single malt mini mash starter? I'm not too sure what you mean here. Unless you are using extremely old DME or maybe Amber or Dark DME you shouldn't have a different taste to the wort than a mashed grain starter.

 

Tasted distinctly husky/grainy.