Saison too tart / acidic

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by corbmoster, Jul 16, 2017.

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  1. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    I have a smidge over 2 gallons of saison in a corney keg that is super dry(1.000 fg), and quite tart. It seems a little acidic too, I knew the pH was going to me lower than I was used to. It's not undrinkable, it isn't terrible. It just isn't something I would ask for either. What would anyone suggest as a way to fix it, or improve it?
     
  2. LakesideBrewing

    LakesideBrewing Zealot (604) Dec 1, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Posting recipe/process info might help. Fermentation/yeast used?

    Without knowing any info on why your beer is acidic it's tough to help you out. Although blending does sound like it would be an option for you.
     
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  3. IPeteA91

    IPeteA91 Initiate (0) Nov 10, 2012 Texas

    I wouldn't blend it, without knowing specifics of your recipe it sounds like something bacterial.
     
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  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Do you have a pH meter?

    If not, pour a glass and taste the beer. Then add a small amount of baking soda (easy to find, you might have some), or pickling lime. Make sure it is dissolved. Do you notice a change in tartness? Add some more and see if it changes.

    Beer pH is usually in the 4.0-4.6 range. 3.9 can be a little tart. You have very little residual sugars to balance the acidity with a FG of 1.0
     
  5. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Unfortunately I'm in the middle of a move and all my brewing notes are packed away. It was a 5 gallon saison batch split between 2 kegs. One dry hopped the one that I'm talking about was not dry hopped. I have no idea where the pH meter is. The grain bill was mostly pills, with white wheat, and some other grain. Vienna I think. Yeast was Mangrove jack French saison which is supposed to be the same at Bell saison or 3711. All hops used were Czech saaz. The dry hopped batch was pretty good, the hops kinda masked the tartness / acidity. I'll try some baking soda to see if that neutralizes it.
     
  6. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Oh, I use RO water and brewcipher to add minerals and adjust pH. My pH meter Sayed it was lower than expected. I kinda didn't trust it because I bought it used and it's off Everytime I use it and have to keep recalibrating it, it's super slow to read. It's next on the list to be replaced.
     
  7. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    Ok , please tell us what were your salts addtion, did you add some kind of acid?. Using RO water and what you have described as your grain bill ,mash pH would never be less than 5.8-5.9
     
  8. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Put me down for recommending blending.

    That said, as others have said, a recipe would be useful in determining how you should construct the more neutral, blending beer.
     
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  9. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Yeah, if this is a clean saison that has that much acidity, I'd be concerned about the presence of lactic acid bacteria and/or brettanomyces.
     
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  10. machalel

    machalel Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2012 Australia

    I know saisons can be dry, but a SG of 1.000? That seems suspiciously low, especially if it is an all-malt recipe and tastes tart as well...
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The OP posted: "Yeast was Mangrove jack French saison which is supposed to be the same at Bell saison or 3711."

    I have achieved a Final Gravity reading of 1.001 when brewing with Wyeast 3711 so I can understand what was achieved here.

    Cheers!
     
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  12. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    Blend.
     
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  13. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'd blend. I had a mixed fermentation saison that turned out way too tart. I blended it into a straight saison at a ratio of 2 gallons tart, 3 gallons clean. It won a few medals, I can't complain.
     
  14. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Did you make an acid addition to your mash? If you did and you were basing it off a live reading from an improperly calibrated meter, yeah, that could explain it. I'm of course unfamiliar with your gear, but every pH meter I have ever used required calibration each use. When I stopped using outdated gear for students and started using lab models with temperature correction and autocalibration, pH readings stopped becoming the bane of my professional existence. Still, the scarring was severe, and I have not yet had the courage (and, I think, the need) to bring pH measurement into my homebrew life.
     
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  15. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    I would agree about the tart bit, but since we don't have a pH reading the tart descriptor is more a personal sensory evaluation than anything else. However, S. cerevisiae var. diastaticus, which many saison strains are, can ferment dextrins and, therefor, can achieve high levels of attenuation alone (read: without help from other microbes like brettanomyces sp.).
     
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  16. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

     
  17. LakesideBrewing

    LakesideBrewing Zealot (604) Dec 1, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    3711 is a beast and eats everything, seriously, everything!
     
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Keep in mind that an SG of 1.000 means 100% Apparent Attenuation, not 100% Real Attenuation. It's more like 80% Real Attenuation, give or take.
     
  19. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Sorry to take so long to get back. To the requests for salts I used etc.: I'm in the middle of moving so my notes and everything are boxed up and waiting to be discovered later. BTW: it's the pH. It's too low. A pinch of baking soda in a mason jar neutralizes it enough to be more palatable. I remember working in brew cipher that I was wanting a lower pH like a tart wit something along those lines. Maybe I went too far. Or maybe I was overconfident in my measuring skills and wasn't paying close enough attention to the acid measurements.
     
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