Saison

I'm curious what you think the shortcomings are in your attempts? It is a style that tends to have quite a range of flavors.

 

KISS. My grain bill is usually all pilsner . . . sometimes I'll add some wheat and currently have a Rye Saison ageing. For yeast I use DuPont, Blaugies, and Hennepin; all fermented pretty high and usually finishes near .002 - .004. The only thing out of the ordinary is I treat my water and they all seem to benefit with lagering for a month. Oh yeah, I've been known to DH with something interesting on occasion.

 

“Anyone had good success brewing this style?” I have had a lot of good success with brewing a variety of Saison beers but needless to say we all have differing palates with differing expectations in what we like in a beer.

IMO, the ‘quality’ of the Saison will be driven by the yeast strain selected and the fermentation temperature profile.

My personal favorite Saison yeasts are East Coast Yeast strain ECY-08 and White Labs Saison III (WLP585); both of those strains perform well (no risk of stalling) and they provide complex flavor profiles (esters & phenols). I also made a Saison using Wyeast 3724 which I enjoyed; it had a nice flavor profile. My only ‘beef’ is that the batch I fermented with Wyeast 3724 took a long time to ferment: 5-6 weeks or so.

I brewed a hoppy Saison last year using Danstar Belle Saison; I generously late hopped with Amarillo hops. The citrus of the Amarillo complemented the spiciness (phenols) from that yeast strain to create an overall complex and tasty Saison beer.

Wyeast 3711 performs like a champ but it provides a bit one dimensional flavor profile of mostly spice (phenols).

I am thinking of trying a Saison yeast blend for my next batch of Saison; The Yeast Bay Saison Blend:

“Saison Blend

A blend of two unique yeast strains isolated from beers that embody the saison style, this blend is a balance of the many characteristic saison flavors and aromas. One yeast strain is a good attenuator that produces a spicy and mildly tart and tangy beer with a full mouthfeel. The other yeast strain is also a good attenuator that produces a delightful ester profile of grapefruit and orange zest and imparts a long, dry and earthy finish to the beer. Together, they produce a dry but balanced beer with a unique flavor and aroma profile.

Temperature: 68-80 ºF

Attenuation: 76 - 82%

Flocculation: Medium – Low”

Cheers!

 

“It could honestly be a case of me not liking what Hallertau brought to the table (weird sweet flavor that I can't put my finger on).” Hmm, that flavor description doesn’t sound anything like Hallertau Hops to me. When I make a traditional Saison I typically use either Saaz or Styrian Goldings as flavor/aroma hops. I do use Hallertauer Mittelfruh as flavor and aroma hops for other beer styles and the flavor/aroma I get from this hop is predominantly herbal.

How old is your 3724 Saison right now? Maybe that beer would benefit from more conditioning time?

Cheers!

 

Wondering what your OG and IBUs are like? What is your BU:GU ratio? Saisons aren't super hoppy by American standards (IPA), but comparatively to other Belgian styles have a hefty hop load. I went low on hops one year and didn't really like the outcome. I have had good success with about 1oz at 25 mins, and another 1.5oz at FO in 5 gallons. I make up the rest of the IBUs with a bittering charge at 45 mins. You can do American, or Noble types, or a blend. I shoot for around 50-60 BU:GU.

Another thing I have found is that pitching too much yeast will ruin a Saison. Yeast is the driving force of this style, so if you have too much yeast it will not be as expressive. I over pitched a rebrew of a really good Saison and it was totally bland. I would recommend making a starter for your pitch, and getting it just shy of what you need, like 15 billion less than recommended, even more if you are using Mr Malty for your pitching rates.

I like to kick up my sulfates in my water too, and a touch of bi-carbonate as well, accentuate the bitter and dry finish (harder to judge with extract as you don't know what the water profile is from the manufacturer).

I prefer to use 3724 or 3726 personally. I haven't cared much for beers made with 3711, really don't like 3522 at all, so. Using Brett B in the bottles after a 3724 primary is amazing BTW.

 

What was your mash pH? Saisons are crisp and are easily made muddy with a high mash pH.

 

Just a thought.... What's your water like? My best saisons (3724 yeast) have been made with fairly hard water. It's pretty much the only style where I don't build my water from distilled.

ETA: What are the commercial Saisons that you do like?

 

Are you getting rid of chlorine/chloramines (assuming your water supply has them)?

 

As insurance, you could add ~1-3% acid malt the next time you brew (assuming it's a lighter grist), though I'd recommend getting a pH meter and using that to guide adjusting your mash pH.

 

If I'm going for a saison with a touch of body (OG 1.056 and FG 1.009 for 83% apparent attenuation) I'll use French Saison yeast (wyeast 3711) myself. I actually don't ferment too hot (like I do with other yeast strains) and I like a 75 minute mash at 148F. I normally start fermentation around 68F and let it climb to about 74F.

If I want bone dry, I use ECY08 with about 10% candi syrup and a warm fermentation schedule (73F to start and raise it up to 84F over the course of a week) which has yielded me 94% apparent attenuation (1.049 down to 1.003). I just don't like the yeast flavor profile ECY08 gives me following this schedule.

I greatly prefer the saison I make with wyeast 3711 but YMMV.

 

@koopa I'm curious how you only get 1.009 FG/86% ATT from 148℉ mash w/ 3711? I've heard that yeast is nye impossible to stop shy of 1.003.

 

Every time I have used 3711 it has come out bone dry. My last 3711 Saison was OG = 1.060 and FG = 1.001; AA = 98%.

Cheers!