Saisons require two yeasts?

1 - No, you just need to be patient, pitch an adequate amount of yeast and warm it up slightly, rousing also helps
2 - build up a healthy amount of yeast to start with ie use a starter, then let it ride, if it takes a couple weeks so be it, Ive never had problems getting my saisons to attenuate

 

The idea of using two strains is cool, but not necessary. One pitch of adequate size of saison yeast will fully attenuate, but sometimes stall at 1.030-1.035. This stall may be restarted by a change in temp, oxygenation or a change in gravity. A second strain(brett....) will change the gravity and kick the highly attenuative saison yeast back into gear.

Unless you want a Brett saison, I would just pitch one strain. Preferably 3711 or 3726.

 

The Dupont Saison strain (Wyeast 3724 & WLP565) reportedly can experience problems of stalling during the ferment. Both Wyeast and White Labs mention this potential for stalling. Just because the potential is there does not mean that this yeast will stall for you. I fermented a Saison last summer using Wyeast 3724 and it did not stall out for me; it was a long ferment though (5 weeks). Some BAs have posted that they have had stalling problems with this yeast. Wyeast encourages you to ferment this yeast very warm: in the 80’s or even 90's if you can achieve it.

If you do experience stalling then you can add a ‘second’ yeast to finish the job. I personally would use a dry yeast like US-05 for this (I had a packet of US-05 available when I made my Saison). White Labs mentions WLP001:

“Note to brewers: This strain tends to stall out in fermentation and then restart as long as two weeks later. Make sure the wort is well-oxygenated and allow the temperature to free rise in order to ensure complete fermentation. Some brewers add WLP001 to finish.”

I would encourage you to be patient first (wait 2-3 weeks if fermentation slows down) before pitching the ‘second’ yeast. It just might happen that WLP565 will ‘re-start’ on its own.

Good luck with your Saison.

Cheers!

 

i did a saison with 3711, and while wyeast claims normal temps for this yeast i found that i had to raise the beer well above their recommended range. i bellieve i had it up to 90 if i recall. the beer turned out quite good, but it was certainly frustrating. i think it was a 7 week fermentation, just dropped really slowly from 1.025 on. i have another going right now with wlp566. again, not supposed to stall, in this case i dont care because its getting brett.

 

I would go with 3711, I have used it a dozen times or more and never had it stall, and it has a great Saison Profile. In fact I'm going to be using it myself twice in 3-4 weeks for 10 gallons of standard saison and 10 gallons of Rye Saison.

 

Wow, it seems you had a weird fermentation with 3711.

I have used this strain a couple of times and both times it performed like a champ. I fermented within the recommended temperature range (low 70’s) and all signs of fermentation were complete in less than 7 days. I left the Saisons in the primary for one more week (a total primary fermentation of 2 weeks) for some ‘extra’ conditioning.

My two batches:

· OG = 1.069, FG = 1.005

· OG=1.060, FG = 1.001

Other folks have reported that 3711 has worked well for them as well (short fermentation timeframes).

Wyeast 3711 is a good strain: it provides a nice mix of pepper/spice and citrus flavors but the pepper/spice flavors dominate (at least that has been my experience).

Wyeast 3724 provides a more ‘complex’ Saison with a nice mixture of fruity and spice flavors with no single flavor dominating.

Cheers!

 

3711 on its own has gotten me down to 1.002 before at room temp.

My most recent saison I pitched 3711 and WYeast Brett L and its still aging but tastes amazing right now. Gravity is currently 1.001

 

Does anyone use their secondary while fermenting your saisons with 3711 or 3724?

 

I personally do not see the requirement for a secondary in making a Saison. I have always just fermented my Saisons in my primary fermenter (just like all of my ales).

Since a lot of folks seem to make Saisons on the higher gravity side (OG > 1.055) some ‘extra’ conditioning time within the primary fermenter would be useful. Some BAs like to keep their beers in the primary for 3-4 weeks regardless of OG.

So, I would just suggest a few weeks in the primary making absolutely sure that the fermentation is complete prior to bottling or kegging.

Cheers!

 

If you are worried about stalling, do not use wy3724/wlp565. Go with wy3711, however, make sure that it is completely done fermenting before packaging and carbonate on the lower end for the style. This yeast is almost as thourough as Brett.

So far as temperature, the brewery that this yeast comes from (Brasserie Thiriez) ferments at 71 for their biere de garde and gets 80% attenuation in 7 days. I've experienced 100% attenuation at ambient temp in the fall over 3 weeks. You should have no problem getting where you need to and then some.

 

That's suprising with 3711. First I heard of that.

 

The last saison I did was fermented with Wyeast 3724 alone and after 6 weeks in primary it went from 1.060 to 1.000, no second strain necessary, just plenty of time. The beer was awesome.

 

yeah i was blown away as well, i thought it would be great...who knows, maybe i didnt get enough oxygen in. maybe the pack wasnt great, this the starter wasnt where it should be...only used it the one time, but thatwas my experience.

 

Can you make a good saison with 3724 even if your temps are more around, say, 75-80 F ?

 

Yes. I have started low and ramped up to 80F over several days, then held there until finished. 3724 is generally slow, but in my experience it always gets there in the end.

 

Good to know. I LOVE saison dupont and would also love to try my hand at cloning it. Their yeast strain is a must though, while I like 3711, it's very different than dupont's yeast.