Sanitation Refresher

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by toolbrew, Jan 6, 2014.

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  1. toolbrew

    toolbrew Pooh-Bah (1,600) Feb 26, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have been homebrewing for a few years and my last two batches have been infected. When bottling, the beer tastes fine. But after bottle conditioning, there is sediment on the sides of the bottles. I believe it's my sanitation procedures but want to ask for suggestions/confirmations on my process below. Should I be using a cleanser in addition to my sanitizer?

    Here's my process:

    Stove-top, partial mash. 60 minute boils. Primary fermentation in ale pails; secondary in better bottle. Smack-packs or white labs straight into the aerated wort. Star San for sanitizer in 5 gallon batches. I soak all bottles, tubes, bottling hose, siphon, caps, spigot, bottling wand, etc in Star San. My last two batches were a vanilla porter and a citra pale ale. I used vanilla beans in the porter without soaking them and thought that could be the culprit. The citra pale ale was brewed normally, but when tasted/smelled, it smelled like old skunky lager/pilsner that had been lightstruck in green glass.

    A homebrew friend of mine said that I should use a cleanser on the bottles before I sanitize (which I haven't been doing). Should I be? And if so, should I be using a bottling brush? Or will letting them soak be enough? I have B-brite and One Step.

    Additionally, if I let the bottles soak in B-brite (which I have done to remove labels), the glass will occasionally be hazy instead of clear. Is this an issue?

    I appreciate any feedback. I hope to put an end to this to get back to brewing.
     
  2. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    Your bottles do need to be cleaned, rinsed (to remove cleanser), and then sanitized proper to bottling. Sounds like the infection is in that part of the system from what you said. I usually remember to rinse out my bottles after pouring them, but if not I use a bottling brush for a once over before sanitation. They should definitely look clean like no gunk or anything in them.

    I would make sure all of your equipment is clean, not scratched, etc. Especially stuff like tubing and bottle fillers which are easy to overlook.
     
    bgjohnston likes this.
  3. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I only accept bottles for storage that have been immediately rinsed and shaken firmly multiple times with hot water, then drained and left to dry upside-down, then after completely dry, have the top covered with a square of tinfoil. Bottles are inspected by holding up to light and looking down the stem (both before the tinfoil is added, to ensure both complete dryness and no residual cling-ons, AND before each bottle is filled with sanitizer on bottling day).

    If a bottle has anything at all that would require a bottling brush to remove it, that bottle is instantly rejected and sent to recycle. I had a few individual bottles get infected around batches 14-15 or so, and I'm sure the reason was taking bottles from friends that weren't clean enough, and not making sure my own handling methods were clean enough either. I don't use any cleanser as I don't want residual cleaner in my beer, and don't want to have to go through another procedure when it comes to bottling if I can avoid it.

    During bottling, I fill up a big pot with starsan solution and immerse each bottle until it sinks, then leave it there for a while before adding to the bottling tree to drain. Make sure the bottling tree is clean and you dump plenty of sanitizer over it before putting bottles on it, and keep dumping a little sanitizer over it every few minutes. Make plenty of solution too, don't try to skimp and save a few cents worth of starsan. Generally for a five gallon batch I mix up a boil kettle's worth of starsan, and it's plenty. Thus one big bottle of starsan lasts a long time (well over a year), and the price of each bottling day's worth of starsan is actually quite low. I do not re-use starsan or attempt to save it, I just mix new each time I need it.

    Now if your gear isn't clean, or your buckets are all scratched up, or you're not sanitizing them properly before bottling, then there's nothing a clean bottle can do for you.

    Also, I replace the hose for my auto-siphon every so often, and even have replaced the auto-siphon itself twice since I started brewing. If you have any gear that's not obviously perfectly clean, and this equipment touches cooled wort / young beer, either clean it right or replace it.
     
  4. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I have enough bottles that I can reject any that have gunk in them. When I pour a beer, I rinse the bottle a couple of times to get out any sediment and then I store upside down to minimize the crap that can get in. When it is time to bottle, I load up the dishwasher with bottles. As I pull a bottle out of the dishwasher, I inspect to make sure that it is clean, then fill. Never had an infection with this procedure.

    It is best to remember that you can't sanitize dirt, you have to start with clean bottles before you sanitize. FWIW, I don't associate light-struck/skunky with infection, but I am no expert and could be wrong. Is is possible that light got to the better bottle/secondary? It is also worth ditching the secondary altogether, that is just another place to potentially pick up an infection.
     
  5. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    One tip is to wash out your bottles as soon as possible after you've poured the beer from them.Just before use, clean them thoroughly using suds and a brush, rinse carefully first with water then with metabisulphite solution and pour off.This will leave a trace of metabisulphite which is an excellent killer of spoilage organisms as well as an anti oxidant.
     
    BILF likes this.
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, you should clean and sanitize your bottles. But "smelled like old skunky lager/pilsner that had been lightstruck in green glass" doesn't sound like an infection to me. It sounds like a lightstruck beer. (If your beer wasn't lightstruck, I don't know what else that could be). The sediment on the side of the bottles could also be a sign of bad/no cleaning (which does not necessarily mean infection). Did the beer taste sour, or buttery/rancid, or sulfury?

    Also, you can use metabisulphite if you want. But we have easier, more effective sanitizers in the 21st century. Starsan is my recommendation.
     
  7. bgjohnston

    bgjohnston Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2009 Connecticut

    Like everyone above says, sanitizing is not a substitute for cleaning first. With the way things sound for you right now, I would clean and sanitize all of your cold-side brewery equipment and supplies before you open another fermenter.
     
  8. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    I wasn't putting forward metabisulphite as a sanitiser but as a very useful material in its own right. It's flavourless, effective against most spoilage organisms but doesn't affect yeast so can be used for bottle conditioning. And it's good at mopping up oxygen.
     
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    90% of brewing is cleaning. You can't sanitize dirt.
     
  10. geocool

    geocool Savant (1,233) Jun 21, 2006 Massachusetts

    I agree with this. I use Oxy-Clean to soak, then rinse (inside and out), then sanitize with StarSan. I had problems with a few batches back when I was just rinsing the bottles out and sanitizing without the cleansing step. When I pull a bottle out of that Oxy-Clean soak and rinse it off, it looks clean! You will notice a big difference.
     
  11. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    You can't sanitize what isn't clean.
    At the risk of repeating myself...you can't sanitize what isn't clean.
     
  12. GardenWaters

    GardenWaters Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2012 Illinois

    Sounds like you pretty much got everything covered in terms of sanitation. So please forgive me for asking, but did you sanitize your yeast packs and scissors (or whatever you used to cut them open)?
     
  13. toolbrew

    toolbrew Pooh-Bah (1,600) Feb 26, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thank you for the advice above. I did sanitize the yeast and scissors before pitching. It would sound like my issue is with the bottles themselves. Although I will begin cleansing and sanitizing everything that comes in contact with the beer post-boil. I don't have a bottle tree for drying. I typically pull the bottles from the sanitizer just prior to bottling and haven't had an issue in the past (with successful batches).

    As for bottles ,I typically rinse them out as soon as I drink them and put them upside down to dry. Then put them in a box until bottling day. But, I hadn't been cleansing them. Thank you again for the advice. Hopefully I will be successful with the next batches.
     
  14. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    OP, be aware that this is one school of thought and by no means is it universally held to be true.
     
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