Schlitz Gusto / Pabst decline?

I can still buy Schlitz in Tennessee. Have to drive about 30 miles. Bottled. Still tastes great. Next trip, I'll likely buy a case of it. One of the better macro lagers of late.

 

As a homebrewer I have never considered the krausening process for my homebrewed lagers. It looks like the total time for krausening/lagering a homebrewed lager is about 4-6 weeks (28-42 days):

“The rest of the procedure is simple. Just add the krausening beer to your bottling container or keg and rack (or siphon) the green beer on top. Then bottle as usual. For lagers, keep the bottled beer at a low room temperature for a couple of days then gradually lower the temperature to lager fermenting temperature, say 50°F (10°C) for about a week or two. Open a bottle to check the carbonation before dropping the temperature further to lagering temperatures. Open a bottle after three or four weeks have passed to check the progress. You will probably find that you have made a super smooth, well carbonated lager that will age gracefully for a very long time if needed.”

http://www.winning-homebrew.com/krausening.html

Cheers!

 

Kraeusening and lagering are neither synonymous nor can they be conflated that way. Kraeusening is simply adding partially fermented wort to nearly finished beer to induce a secondary fermentation and provide natural carbonation. This takes a matter of minutes/hours, not days/weeks. Lagering is the long process of maturation that follows. And the resulting beer is sometimes called Krauesenbier.

But, hey, wouldn't be the first time facts got in the way of someone's opinions!

 

“In the finishing of lager, this technique uses active wort that is halfway through its fermentation cycle and makes up approximately 15% to 20% of the volume of the tank. Kräusening was originally developed as a method of initiating a slow secondary fermentation that would reduce the level of undesirable flavor components and produce a cleaner tasting beer. This secondary fermentation could take as long as three or four weeks, which was the standard aging period for most lagers. When kräusened in an enclosed tank, beer becomes naturally carbonated as well.”

- See more at:http://www.anchorbrewing.com/blog/anchor-terminology-krausening/

Cheers!

 

No one implied they were synonymous - only that, in modern "macro" breweries like Heileman and Anheuser-Busch that still practice(d) kraeusening, the two distinct processes occurred in the same largering tanks during the same period. Again, quoting AB (from a 1960s promo piece):

At one time (pre-Pro) US lager brewers did have separate tanks for lagering and kraeusening. It's covered on page 90 of Ehret's 25 Years of Brewing (1881), for one example.

Really- minutes/hours? To secondary ferment 1000 bbl. of beer at typical US lagering temps?

Well, yeah, maybe so, just not typically in the US - where Heileman and Anheuser Busch brewed their kraeusened beers (as did a number of other pre-craft era breweriess like Ballantine, Rheingold, Utica Club, etc.) Some brewer- maybe Schaefer? - "Americanized" it to "brewed twice" or something like that...but more typically the term "naturally carbonated" was used.

Well, there is no doubt that once the marketing people get a hold of - or make up - a term like "beechwood aging" or "kraeusen-brewed" (or "cold brewed" or"cold filtered") they tend to play fast and loose with the exact industry definition.

 

I think I've only ever seen Schlitz in bars, little lone stores. Maybe I should start shopping at gas stations, haha? Didn't Schlitz go back to the 1960's recipe or something like that?

 

The process off adding unfermented wort takes just hours. The process of secondary fermentation this initiates takes weeks/months. The former is known in German brewing as Kraeusening. The latter is known as lagering. Does the book you reference say that U.S. brewers maintained separate lagering tanks for krauesened and unkraeusened beer?

 

...sorry, was on my phone and couldn't feasibly check that source material; back on the laptop now and I went to pg. 90 but didn't see anything indicating separate lagering and kraeusening tanks. Maybe the page number was wrong?

 

Available on Google Books at 25 Years of Brewing (pg. 79-80)

100 Years of Brewing (1903) covers the same topic, as well as explaining how the US lager brewers' methods at the turn of the century evolved and differed from the German breweries of the era. Not on Google Books, and I ain't gonna type that much even if it is probably in the public domain...

Yeah, one digit off - page "80" not "90". The result of me having to constantly switch from "computer screen reading glasses" to "book reading glasses"

 

Got it.

Even there, though, they say that "in order to re-enliven the liquid, a secondary fermentation must be produced by adding one-fifth of new beer to four-fifths of the old."

Again, traditionally the process of adding the new beer is called Kraeusening, and the process it initiates or produces is simply secondary fermentation or lagering.

It's fairly obvious that the language about "krausening for 30 days" is nothing more than marketing speak along the same lines as "triple-hops brewed."

 

In college the sandwich shop on campus carried dark Schlitz on draft for a year or so. It was very good, and at 60 cents per pint it was a good way to get a nice buzz without spending a lot of money. I never saw dark Schlitz offered anywhere else and I'm assuming it was draft only, and with limited distribution. I was thinking of heading out to buy some beer for the weekend, I may have to see if Schlitz is available. I drank Schlitz almost exclusively in the late 60s in high school due to the fact the guy purchasing beer (a friend's older brother) was a Schlitz fan. By the mid 70s it seemed like it had gone down hill and I don't remember drinking it much after that.

 

I thought you might enjoy reading this article entitled: The House of Heilemann.

http://byo.com/stories/item/2503-the-house-of-heileman

Cheers!

 

Yeah, but no one (me, Steele, Heileman...) has ever defined it differently. I'd add, "...secondary fermentation which takes place in a closed tank under pressure which carbonates the beer naturally...".

Well, it can take place as part of the lagering process and (as noted in posts above) in the same tank, but there are lots of lagers (granted, many lagered for shorter-than-traditional periods) that are not kraeusened, but simply artificially carbonated (aka "forced carbonated") after storage in standard lagering tanks.

Traditionally, in the US pre-craft era breweries, those breweries would collect the CO2 from those lagering tanks and use it to carbonate the beer in finishing tanks, just before packaging. Not so common in US craft breweries from what I understand.

 

I miss Heileman. I used to have stock in the company until I had to sell my shares to Alan Bond's buyout. While I had the shares (for several years), it had almost constant growth and I made enough money on it to buy a used car.

 

I saw some at the store today. I looked at the stamp on the bottom of the can...2011. Meh. Rainier cans were a bit better, Dec 2012.

 

Okay, we all know that in 2008 the classic 1960's "Gusto" formula was released by Schlitz. Now, I am unable to find cans or bottles labelled as that. I have seen some Gusto check-in's on Untappd, but most of the Gusto check-in's on Untappd with photos do NOT show a can labelled as the classic 60's formula and I think people were checking it in as such anyway.

So the question nobody can definitively answer for me is - Is the Schlitz you find on the shelves now in bottles and cans the 60's formula, or has the Gusto 60's formula been dropped and the unmarked bottles are some other version of Schlitz? BA makes a distinction between the two also.

 

“So the question nobody can definitively answer for me is - Is the Schlitz you find on the shelves now in bottles and cans the 60's formula, or has the Gusto 60's formula been dropped and the unmarked bottles are some other version of Schlitz?”

I purchased a case of Schlitz 1960s Formula Lager beer a couple of years ago and the case & bottles were labeled with “1960s Formula”. A beer store near me currently has a couple cases of Schlitz that has the detail of “1960s Formula” on the case box.

My understanding is that if the bottle or case does not have “1960s Formula” on it, it is not the 1960s Formula beer.

Cheers!

 

For a while there (and 2008 seems so long ago... ) there were 2x12cans and Flats/"suitcases" of 12oz cans in the local market (see HERE) alongside the new "Gusto", which at that time was only in six and 12-pack glass longnecks.

It was strange to see the 'old' (circa 1970s - 2008?) recipe and 'older' (1900 - 1960s) recipe, both packaged and co-existing in the market, with one at a lower price point and only in cans -- the other now making its way to tap placements and with billboards and large-scale advertising all over the place. After a year or so --and with the introduction of the "Tall Boy" cans-- I thought that the older branding (circa 1970s to 2008*) would've been completely depleted, but I still saw some every now and then, most likely past-code product which hadn't been picked up by the ditributor. By now I hope there's none of that left and that the only Schlitz on the shelf is the "Gusto" brand. On the other hand, maybe it varies by market and area? I guess only a Pabst employee could tell us for sure.

*Not counting "Red Bull" and "Blue Bull", which were also re-vamped in 2008 with package extensions that would confuse many a 40oz malt liquor fan; Red Bull "Extra Long", I.M.L., O.S.L., and O.M.L. packages? Really, Pabst? As the original Red and Blue were regional malt liquor iterations based upon strength, all these packages/cans circa 2008 did was dilute the credibility of the original brands -- and grab shelf space. Colt 45 saw similar package re-designs and line extensions with "Blasts."

 

I saw recently that the www.schlitzgusto.com website is now "under construction" as opposed to the stale 2008 website that it had been. So maybe we'll have the answer soon.