Scottish Ale - Crystal vs Carmelization

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by crcostel, Nov 18, 2017.

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How do you make your Scottish Ale

  1. Lengthen the Boil

    8 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. Crystal/Caramel malt

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. Both

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  4. Neither

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
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  1. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Contemplating doing a Scottish Ale next month. Under the old (traditional) guidelines, the boil was lengthened to caramelize the wort. The 2015 guidelines say use the malt bill to get it and do not caramelize the wart.

    Which do you all prefer (or both) and why?
     
  2. LuskusDelph

    LuskusDelph Initiate (0) May 1, 2008 New Jersey

    First of all, the "guidelines" are practially meaningless.
    It all depends how "traditional" you want to be. Personally, for Scotch Ale, I boil a segment of the wort separately, concentrating it down to about 1/4-1/3 volume, and then add it to the overall boil.
    Where I break from "tradition" is to use at least 25-30% Munich malt.

    Recently, in a corner of my cupboard, I found a bottle of Scotch Ale I brewed in 1991. It was SO delicious that I immediately set out to brew a batch from the same recipe specifically to lay aside to age (though it probably won't make it to 35+ years).
     
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  3. secondbase

    secondbase Initiate (0) Jun 3, 2015 Tennessee

    I boil the first gallon into a syrup for smaller scottish beers, and boil the entire first runnings into a syrup for bigger scottish beers. I also do that with barleywines which seems to get a much richer and deeper malt character than simply using crystal and other adjuncts with a standard boil length.
     
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  4. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    I do a little caramel malt but still boil down about a gallon and do a 90 minute boil. End result is caramel awesomeness.
     
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  5. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Devotee (337) Jun 4, 2017 Ohio

    Would about 3 ounces of Lyle's Black Treacle added at the end of the boil (for a roughly 5.5 gallon batch) give it something akin to the caramelized wort taste? It is pretty much a caramelized invert sugar.

    https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com
     
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  6. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    I like the thought - my batches are 2 gallon so it'd be closer to 1oz though
     
  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

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  8. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Devotee (337) Jun 4, 2017 Ohio

    I also wonder if (as an alternative to my earlier suggestion of Lyle's Black Treacle) you could add 3 or 4 ounces of D90 Candi Syrup to get the caramelized Scotch Ale effect?

    https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com
     
  9. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    The like that @pweis909 cited seems to call for the method @Silver_Is_Money is suggesting. Go all pale malt, standard boil, then add caramel (or candi/treacle/invert etc) late. One advantage of that is I could save the remaining syrup for an AP/ESB or an Abbey.
     
  10. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    A very wise man once said ( Wolfgang Kunze) buy your caramels, don't make them yourself.
     
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  11. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Zealot (744) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    I voted neither. I do a standard 60 minute boil. My grain bill for my last Scottish ale consisted of GP, Munich II, and a bit of black malt. Mashed high and fermented cool, I don't miss the caramel flavors or perceived sweetness at all. I've also gotten good feedback on the beer from family members who do generally like the style.

    Full disclosure: I dislike caramel flavors (in general, but especially in beer) so I never use crystal malt in any of my beers. This also means I have never liked commercially produced Scottish ales much.
     
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  12. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,276) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    To brew any style of Scottish ale except for a light shilling beer I fire up the kettle so that it's very hot and then slowly bring the wort over from the mash tun. The initial runnings will "sizzle" and caramelize, and then as I go I'll be almost at boiling as I fill the kettle. I'll extend the boil for a larger Scotch ale but the early start on the boil seems to be more than enough for regular strength ale.
     
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  13. Hanglow

    Hanglow Pooh-Bah (2,051) Feb 18, 2012 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    Spoken like a man who has never tried to buy british brewing sugar in weights less than a ton :slight_smile:

    I've never tried treacle in a beer but I like the effect of the darker homemade invert
     
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  14. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Love this technique. Usually I simply reduce the first couple gallons by about 3/4ths and add that back to the main wort once it's in the fermenter.
     
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  15. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Devotee (337) Jun 4, 2017 Ohio

    What retail level purchasable brands and types are the best matches to official caramelized wort?
     
  16. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    One question though - don't invert sugars and candi syrup tend to dry out a beer? Which is sort of the opposite of using crystal
     
  17. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Basically, yes. However, you can get a lot of flavor (read: not cloying sweetness) from certain candi syrups, especially the darker ones.
     
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