Scottsdale

I secretly love Yucca Tap Room!!! Craft brew is on the rise everywhere!! I think most those places you listed pour Colorado and California beers I wish Ballast would date their beers!!! Can I get Sculpin on tap anywhere? Alesmith, can I find Wee Heavy, or any of their other big beers? Cheers! I'll be at Four Peaks and Papago if anyone wants to drink. This Taste of Tops sounds good too.

 

Shit, Sculpin is dated??? Little do I know, love the beer but have to trade for it and never noticed the dating!! Cheers

 

Wait, Phoenix also has Old World Brewing, Sleepy Dog, Dave's Electric, Grand Canyon Brewing, Phoenix Ale Brewery, Gordon Biersch, Rock Bottom, BJ's, and Oggi's! let's not leave those off the list either! San Diego, you're in the dust!

 

Let me get a few things out of the way.

I reject the notion that if anyone disagree about the Phoenix Metro beer bar scene that they are expressing "homerism".

The trade-ability of various beer brands is a flawed metric for "beer culture". Beer Culture isn't a relationship with your delivery guy and the unique cardboard boxes that they arrive in.

I'm not here to make an argument about any top ten city lists because I don't think those types of arguments are worthwhile. I will say that Ron is uniquely qualified to speak on the matter (local biz owner status aside) since he's spent considerable time in these cities.

I am not wholly satisfied with the beer culture, brewery and bar scene here in PHX. If I lived in Portland or San Diego I also would not be wholly satisfied with the beer culture, brewery and bar scene. I am one who wants to add to what is going on, try to make a difference and not sit and complain about what is lacking. Most of us commenting here, have quite a bit of insight into what's going on across the country, but we're really in the minority. Even in some of these "Top 10 cities" you're going to find that most people don't give a shit about these special releases, because most people don't live their lives questing for a 3 oz pour. They'd rather stick to their tried and true (top selling btw) flagship beers.

It's probably real easy for people to make some sort of comparison with the beer culture here and the desert. I'll make it in a slightly different way. It's full of life and defies everything that nature puts in it's way. We have everything that most other cities have. It's just spread out over 1000 square miles and so you might have to look for it or drive to it. Phoenix is larger in square miles than LA, we have more of a transportation problem then a beer problem. The truth of the matter is that is where Portland excels. San Deigans have some areas of concentrated beer places but they also are fairly spread out. Everyone wants to include San Marcos and Alpine in the San Diego Venn diagram but you run a considerable risk driving to those places when you're at Hamiltons and are looking for the next place to go.

A word on special releases. There is no doubt that the AZ catalog is less mature when it comes to packaged special releases. The reason for this is the absolutely explosive growth and demand for locally produced beer. They're selling everything they make. This includes some of the breweries that made the list above. Many of the breweries went right to canning, which means that most of their production is going toward 4 or 5 products. A bell weather for 22oz specialties is going to be Four Peaks once they shift production to the other brewery. The Brewpub has a bomber line and all of the brewpub's production will be some of the one off batches that apparently some of you never drink because you can't be arsed to go where the beer is. This won't take all that long. Think about how quickly there were about a dozen Epic brewing offerings in PHX.

In short, we've got more going on than meets the eye. If you're not a believer, give it 18 months. Downtown PHX is starting to have a walkable neighborhood of a few places that are desert defying. Lost Leaf, Carly's, the Roosevelt, Film Bar all have a beer focus (and unique offerings) and they will soon be joined by a 25 tap Angels Trumpet. All within 5 min walk.

 

I share a lot of your opinions and I'm open-minded about the future being better. Great.

However, there's only real room for many of these fine points if people are having a (lighthearted) comparison about whether, for example, San Diego is better than Portland or Denver - because at that point it really is a tough decision and the nitty gritty of the criteria matter a lot. Lighthearted because probably the only defensible answer is that you can't decide in a case like that, and we all know it. In that, I agree it's impossible to make a specific numerical ranking of 1-10 best cities, for example. But there's just no similar comparsion here with Phoenix. Not even close. Not even same league. Probably the best response was by the person who said it was best to not even dignify the Phoenix claim with a response at all, because the gap really is that wide.

Homerism may be defined in a variety of ways, but when one has an inflated view of one's home scene then that's really the core of what Homerism is. It's hard to call out Homerism if the San Diegan insists they're better off than Portland. But there's no ambiguity in the case of saying that San Diego is behind Phoenix, in any but the most narrow or obtuse criterion used. It's pure, simple Homerism. And if San Diego is fairly compared to Portland, which it's hard to argue it isn't, and Phoenix is ahead of San Diego... I need not draw the inference for you. It's all the reductio I need, if I needed one at all.

 

Why is the whole state of AZ being compared to 1 county in CA?

Going back to 1990 AZ has won 75 medals at GABF.
Going back to 1990 CA has won >500 medals at GABF.
http://www.greatamericanbeerfestival.com/the-competition/winners/

San Diego County going back to 1990 ~113 medals at GABF. Due to some ambiguity in the Oggi's lines/locations they weren't counted unless said somewhere in SD, same with Rock Bottom (in some instances it said La Jolla, and were thus counted. Count is probably higher, but I took the conservative route.

Keep on trying AZ.

 

I find it funny that folks would cite trade requests or GABF medals as any kind of basis for comparison. Arizona brewers have traditionally made safer, core beers because their focus has been on the local market and keeping the lights on and the brew kettles burning. It has nothing to do with ability. In part that has held breweries back from distributing outside the AZ market. We are just now starting to really see some of the creativity AZ brewers have. Sonoran Chef Series is a creative beer that is already attracting attention outside of the market place (as did the 200 before that). Arizona Wilderness, and some of the other planned startups look like they are going to push the envelope. Existing breweries like Four Peaks and SanTan are already doing that with some of their seasonal or occasional releases. If you have never been to Thunder Canyon you may not appreciate what an amazing brewer Steve Tracy is, or, for that matter you could say the same about Uwe at Sun Up.

The bottom line is our beers aren't available outside of the state. It is hard to generate a buzz when only your locals know your beers. That isn't necessarily a function of popularity, but of business plans and sustainability. With Four Peaks cracking the largest craft brewer's list, expect to see more interest in AZ beers outside of the state.

Using medals for comparison is even more bogus since they only measure a brewer's ability to brew to a certain criteria used for judging without regards as to commericial viability or general market acceptance of a beer. Medals are nice to have, but at the end of the day, really mean very little in terms of quality. The list of brewers that have never won a GABF or WBC medal would likely surprise you; as would the list of brewers who have won medals...and some of the beers they have won them for.

Arizona is still a less mature craft market than most of those considered to be the best. Part of that is based on climate, part on legislative issues, part on the fact that we are a chain dominated market that has taken a lot logner than most to catch on. There is a reason why Colorado brewers agressively fight legislation that would create a bigger chain market...they have thrived for years because of the independents. Likewise, many markets with great beer cultures have done so because of independents. The fact that Arizona has developed the beer bars that we have, and that we still have room to go until we are saturated is a pretty strong statement about our culture here.

San Diego is one of my favorite beer towns to visit, and is no doubt world class, but Phoenix has been growing the culture slowly for years and has started exploding only recently. There are major craft brewers now looking at our market for expansion that previously would have put many other markets higher on their list.

Ultimately, it is not about ranking on anybody's list. As Ron pointed out, it is personal preference, just as beer is. Nobody can tell you that you are right or wrong for your opinion. Whether you agree with Ron or not, he makes some very good points and does highlight where Arizona (Valley of the Sun in particular) has grown to in terms of craft beer.

 

has grown to in terms of craft beer.[/quote] That is the same for craft brew across the US (the numbers are up!!!), from South Dakota to Florida, North Carolina to Texas (Austin, i.e). I'm so grateful for this!!! I'm excited to visit the state I spent 12 years of my life in and see what's new (because it was shit 7-8 years ago), but to compare Phoenix to San Diego in ANY craft beer related sense is crazy. Maybe growth but that's it.

 

Do you work for a local distributor here in AZ? I don't want to confuse you with someone else.

 

Why do you think so many AZ people rather brew their own beer?

I'm not sure if I should laugh or defend...so I'll do both.

Phoenix - The Main Ingredient: http://tmialehouse.com/beverages.html
(couldn't find The Roosevelt's tap list)

San Diego - Downtown Johnny Browns: http://downtownjohnnybrowns.com/whats-on-tap/
San Diego - Neighborhood: http://neighborhoodsd.com/menu-beer-tap.php

I'll stop with two. Any more would just be antagonizing.

Cheers from San Diego!

 

Sick burn, stawn.

 

I have spent a week or so in both Phoenix and San Diego and visited a good number of beer places. Phoenix has a really good beer scene, probably beyond my expectations. I am looking forward to my next visit later this summer.

That said, it really is not in the same league as San Diego by any reasonable measure. That's not a knock. You can drink plenty of good beer in Phoenix. I've been to plenty of cities that are not nearly as good.

 

O.H.S.O in Arcadia (E Phoenix, not far from Scottsdale) is an up & comer on the PHX beer scene. Tons of AZ beer offerings (some would say too much so) & a well -thought out list of regional / national craft offerings. Good atmosphere, gastro-pubby food & nice patio too. Presumably they will be brewing in the near future too.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/27354/?view=beerfly

Comparison between PHX & SD scenes is pointless. OP will experience a lesser scene for sure but there is not a shortage of better beer in the valley.

 

We do get some good beer in Az, it just can't compare to the San Diego beer scene. People trying to say we have a better beer scene are being ridiculous.