Shaun Hill Comments on Pitching Rates

I haven't heard that podcast so I'm not clear what the whole concept is. Fermentation shouldn't affect bitterness, right? But in any case I always overpitch and that seems to work.

 

Industry standard iirc is 1 million cells per ml per degree plato.

Perhaps the bitterness from "yeast bite" in the finished product?

 

It's funny when a few years ago people commented about their beers tasting 'off', other people called them haters! Guess Shaun is just a hater! Haha.

 

I pitch ales at 1.75m/ml, and lagers at 2.5m/ml.

 

It depends on the yeast, and what you want it to do for the beer. British brewers pitch less than the recommended rate to get more esters, for example.

 

Although many may already know this, the reason that underpitching causes more ester formation is not because it somehow "stresses" the yeast. It is because most esters are created during the logarithmic/growth phase, so the longer it takes the yeast to get to maximum cell density, the more esters that are created.

I always think that it's important to clarify that, but ymmv.

 

Well, Shaun changed several variables with the new brewhouse and new well. It's not surprising that yeast behavior changed, but it was apparently more than he expected. When I was up there almost exactly 2 years ago he mentioned that he was dissatisfied with the current batch of Edward... needless to say, he made the required adjustments and Edward is more beautiful than ever now.

If there is any lesson for homebrewers here I think it is "know your system". Standard recommendations are a starting point that you build upon with experience. If Shaun's brewhouse or water were different than what they are he might have had to increase rather than decrease pitch rates. A few test batches with deliberate under and over pitching is a good experiment for most of us. And of course every yeast strain is different. This kind of stuff is what makes our hobby so interesting, both brewing and talking about it.

 

waters chemical properties can change depending on your source.

In town, we have 2 wells within 200 yards of each other and both test similar, mostly. For making water potable, there is no difference in treatment, both are clean. But for beer, one has a more calcium and perhaps, that would change the beers taste.

Back on the farm, we have a spring which is considered surface water, even tho it's 10 feet deep. This water changes with the seasons. Spring and fall brings rains and or melting snow which flush the spring but also brings in more rain water. In certain beers it is detectable especially pales/IPAs. Summer and winter the water inflow/outflow is mostly steady. Water properties stays the same for the most part.

If I and others can tell the difference in taste per 5-6 gallon batch, the same can hold true for hill, maybe more so due to the volume increase.

Some drilled or pounded wells can have similar characteristics to a spring. They are all different.

 

That is a great episode of GBH.. An interesting thing if you listen he says Holy Cow was an eye opening beer for him. A soft, drinkable, low ABV hoppy beer. It’s what he modeled Edward after from what I can gather. He mentions the softer profile of Alchemist beers a few times as well as referencing Noonan when it comes to water. In Mitch Steele’s IPA book there are two specific recipes for Black IPAs, one from Noonan, one from Kimmich. They’re probably the most detailed recipes in there too which is nice. They refer to specific mash thickness, very specific on temp, but also pitch rate. The crazy thing is Kimmich recommends a pitch rate of 6-7 million per ml for a 17 Plato beer and Noonan recommends 15 million per ml for a 14.5 Plato beer. So Kimmich’s pitch rate is essentially .4 mil/ml/*plato and Noonan’s is closer to the standard 1 mil/ml/*plato of the same yeast.

 

Are you suggesting that underpitching will result in a softer beer?

 

Not really suggesting anything... just trying to find some sort of references to figure out what he meant. I’ve never heard of someone associating pitching rate with bitterness. I would think that underpitching would make more sense as there is the possibility of simply less yeast in the beer but I could be totally wrong. If underpitching is the case I think you would have to know the yeast very intimately to drastically underpitch and not get the associates off flavors of a serious underpitch. O2 requirements, ideal temp schedule, or maybe even specific CA, MG, Zinc, FAN requirements.

On that note Kimmich always recommends pretty high hardness and CA amounts when talking about brewing his beers. For El Jefe he recommends a hardness level of 400ppm. Could it not only pertain to the flavor/texture of the beer but also to optimize the performance of Conan?

 

Funny enough, yeast strain selection does, in fact, affect IBUs/bitterness. A decent overview of the science.

 

A change in water chemistry is a FAR more likely explanation.

 

Shaun is militant about water, militant. He has said the water from their wells changes all the time. Based on his skill set I would think water would be the easiest thing for him to deal with when it comes to upgrading to a a new well and a completely new system. I would bet the change to a new system and scaling was more difficult than water adjustment.

 

Yup, I just listened to the podcast that @chipawayboy linked and he stated: "The water supply changes" so he is obviously aware that this aspect needs to be monitored and accounted for.

Cheers!

 

I would assume he uses a TDS meter daily. If the the numbers are too far out, then do some titration with the kits that are available. Send the water out for testing monthly to get a handle on the seasonal variation -the local brewer did that last part.

 

That's all well and good, but if he's suggesting that pitching yeast at "industry recommended rates" leads to an increase in bitterness, he's suggesting something that has no science behind it. Love to see information, like published scientific articles, to the contrary, though.