Should I support Tired Hands?

I'll start off by noting that, of course, it's totally up to you as to whether the allegations/outcomes are serious enough to dissuade you from buying from them... but that I think that it's a good thing that people are asking these questions.

And to answer you simply -- no, this is far from "resolved." Nothing of substance that I'm aware of actually came out of the strong allegations of Tired Hands being a shitty workplace (specifically for minorities, women, the disabled), and in fact it seems like Jean got much more forward about putting himself in the front and center of the business once again by promoting himself on their social media pages (even though he said he was "taking a step away" from the business along with his wife).

I don't have the details handy but I also think there was talk about places like Pink Boots refusing their charity due to ongoing, unaddressed issues... Tired Hands taking to social media to fight these claims and that getting messy... and other insinuations that the same culture that gave rise to the initial allegations is still going strong. They also deleted the initial social media post addressing the claims, admitting fault, and talking about steps to move forward, which I find particularly disgusting.

I would be itching to forgive them if there seemed to be what appeared to be genuine remorse and active steps taken to address the problems that many, many workers have acknowledged... but instead it seems like they've only gotten more defensive and doubled down. Make of all that what you will.

 

If it makes you feel better, things were already going downhill there beer-wise even before news hit (they’ve changed a few brewers) and I hear it’s been inconsistent lately.

If you’re in the area and looking for other tap rooms, I’d highly recommend either Human Robot, Forest & Main, or Carbon Copy… or just check out the “Philadelphia Recommendations” thread.

 

Great post and summary. I've heard more and more bad things about HF, but very little about Tired Hands despite the fact a lot more of it is coming to NYC (and on Tavour). Probably a result of the beer falling off I suppose.

I'd also like to substantiate the claim that Human Robot and Forest & Main are absolutely worth a stop if you're in that area, so there are still some amazing destinations that you don't have to feel bad about supporting. Enjoy your trip!

 

I used to be a huge, huge TH fanboy up until about early 2022. While I was happy to see that there were some steps taken (at the time) to address the whole Rat Magnet stuff, what did it for me was the constant quality decline that I began to notice, along with some weird behavior from Jean on social media that basically invalidated the steps taken in the previous year to address those allegations.

If you're going to charge a premium for product, I personally expect that product to be as consistent as possible (referring to the standard stuff like AC, Hophands, the milkshakes and not the one off beers), especially in a market where you can easily get similar beers such as Other Half for less price.

 

I think if I owned a brewery in today’s crazy world, I would have a website only and maintain it and avoid having any sort of presence on any/all social media. The marketing /sales positives from Social media seem far outweighed by the risks of instant cancelization and instant drop in sales, even if you and your staff are on good behavior.

 

How so?

Any brewery that doesn't have a presence on social media these days is at a huge disadvantage, and in my anecdotal experience like 95% of breweries do just fine not getting "cancelled" (i.e. galvanizing consumers to stay away from them due to poor workplace conditions, sexism, racism, whatever, via the free market).

 

Yeah, I agree with @William_Navidson that you need a social media presence to promote your business. I don't have a full catalog of Jean's bad behavior on social media but I know he was antagonizing and harassing Brienne after the treatment of his employees was brought to do. That's an easy thing not to do. Most breweries can handle that but I guess it takes less ego and thicker skin than what Jean has.

 

I have never had social media accounts and have never had any trouble discovering new breweries in my area nor top breweries while on travel (Beer Advocate is only exception). The only time it’s been an issue was during the weekly drops by some of the top brewers when many would only communicate on Facebook, Insta and such. That was annoying they didn’t maintain their websites but those line standing days are long over so it’s a non issue.

 

That's great -- but surely you're aware that that't not how most consumers operate, right? You seem to be very aware of the fact that you're the exception as opposed to the "average consumer," so I'm not sure why you aren't taking that into account.

And again -- it seems to me like you're drastically overstating the degree to which breweries are in danger of "cancellation" with "good behavior." I have no clue what you meant by that.

 

If 99 bad actors get cancelled from their livelihood from social media influencing of public opionion, but one innocent person is victimized, then IMO it’s worth staying away and avoiding the risk. It’s funny because so many businesses seem to think the marketing and branding etc is now on various social media sites. Our sales guy kept putting tons of stuff out on social media to get our company visible, but every time we’ve interviewed someone (young/old doesn’t matter), they always have questions or comments about info on our company website. So base on that, I tend to think websites are still the primary place people go for business related info.

 

Ok, maybe?... but again, that (1) doesn't jive at all with your initial claim concerning the "risk" associated with "getting canceled" even with "good behavior" and (2) can you point to any instance at all of this occurring? Who is this impacting? If the risk is as high as you're insinuating, then surely there must be plenty of examples, right?

 

I’m done. This is prime example why I don’t bother with social media.

 

Wow, I'm very surprised and dismayed that you aren't interested in expanding on your original point. Surely it wasn't a premise based on a completely imaginary problem.

 

I do think websites matter and audiences being pushed to social media is partially because of poor maintenance of the company websites. It would be much easier to keep up with breweries if they kept their websites updated, I agree with you on that @bubseymour. It is annoying to have to scroll through multiple social media posts to figure out when such and such beer is/was released, if there are any limits, and sometimes even open hours or whether they have a food truck or not. A website should not be ignored.

I don't think social media is something you need to shy away from for fear of being cancelled. Specific to the Tired Hands issue, where Jean is definitely not one of the "innocent" ones, the issue is that there wasn't a separation of personal and business and Jean abused the social media account for his own agenda. Most breweries do fine with that separation.

 

I'm confused. Tired Hands was "cancelled" because of the actions of their brewer. Not because they have an Instagram. It got worse because the guy decided to use Instagram to double down instead of just posting business as usual. Not having an Instagram doesn't make you immune to backlash if your actions are shit. One really has nothing to do with the other?

This reads as a weird social media is bad strawman.

 

I wouldn't worry about trying to make much sense of the logic like I did... I think the subtext is pretty apparent at this point.

 

I'm surprised too, but for different reasons. Joins an open discussion by making a statement about the risks of using social media. Gets challenged (modestly, mind you) and then disappears instead of engaging in an actual discussion. Seems to me they are a typical modern day social media user.

 

But, to contribute to the OP's question I'll echo @William_Navidson, it's really up to you. You will come across a lot of opinions but unfortunately not as much info regarding any positive changes in culture within the brewery/ownership group. I'm not saying that there hasn't been any changes, there's just not a lot of info out there on the subject. You could easily purchase and enjoy the beer and no one would be the wiser. Whether or not you are ok with that should give you your answer.