Sixpoint Beer Purchasing App

I think my comment already disproved that claim Jack. If one readily admits that TreeHouse is the leading archetype of the style, and TreeHouse is brewing these beers on a 60bbl brewhouse, you clearly can make them at scale without sacrificing quality.

What you can't do is make 10,000 cases of the beer at a time and blast them through a distribution network and have them sit out on a warm shelf for two months, and think they will taste the same.

We're talking about two different things here, but its important to note that in this specific instance - where TreeHouse is identified as the top producer of the style in their field, and they are now brewing on a large system - scale is not the issue. The distribution is the issue.

 

You have it in the NYC area, but Burial's distribution is extremely limited:
http://www.burialbeer.com/find-our-cans/

Based on their website, they have a 10 barrel system at their original location, and a new 20 barrel production brewery. So tiny compared to regional or national craft brewers.

 

Right, but a 60 bbl brewhouse (what TreeHouse has) is a large brewing system that is capable of making 120,000 bbl+ of beer per year, which would put you easily within the top 50 craft breweries in the United States by volume (99th percentile of all brewers).

Does size matter when the leading example of the style brews on a large system?

 

in the terms of the conversation i was having on the show that i was queried on here that is not a large system. it's all all about context i guess.

 

at your leisure sir

 

No, my point was that Burial is only brewing enough to distribute to 5 metro areas.

I agree that the issue is distribution/freshness.

If a beer is totally dependent on late-addition/dry hops and nothing else for flavor, then it's shelf life is extremely limited. Also, why I haven't cared for a lot of the "NE style" beers that I have drank. They are one-trick ponies. Most smell nice, and that's it.

 

Shane, it would appear that you and Augie have a differing opinion/perspective on what constitutes a large brewing system.

Cheers!

 

"If a beer is totally dependent on late-addition/dry hops and nothing else for flavor, then it's shelf life is extremely limited."

Which further emphasizes the point that its also about distribution and freshness, and not entirely dependent on scale. You can get abundant hop aroma and flavor on larger brewing systems, and there are plenty of examples to confirm this.

Jack,

I started on a five gallon homebrewing system, so anything above 15 bbl is large to me.

60 bbl is big, and way out of the league of a typical nanobrewery. You can make well over 100,000 bbl of beer per year on a system like that.

cheers

 

please remember i grew up in the shadow of AB Newark. "large" to me is 9mm BBL of bud lite a year from a brick building i pass while commuting every day. nothing makes me laugh harder than when some one calls SAM "huge" there is what "we all do" and what "they" do. it's all context, but in my discussions beer is beer and what i do is what i do. other people do other things, one of those things is "large" production and it aint what very many people do.

 

Haha just got to that part in the discussion about the Wicked Weed acquisition. Ok @Sixpoint sorry we hijacked your thread. Ok NE ipa discussion as well, this is a good one to listen to: http://www.stealthisbeer.com/episod...uisition-lagunitas-buy-out-and-more-beer-news

Cheers!

 

Augie, this reminds me of something I often say (my friend Paul likes to make fun of me about that): “It’s all relative”.

You mentioned in Episode #129:

“…wherever they (Sixpoint) are doing it in Tennessee you can’t make Trillium (NEIPAs) beer…” You then went on to mention that tank size is the issue.

When you discuss “tank size” I am assuming that you are referring to fermentor size?

Perhaps Shane (@Sixpoint) can provide more details about City Brewing Company – Memphis:

· What is the size of the brew kettle?

· What are the size(s) of the fermenters

Cheers!

@makalarch

 

Thanks for that info....wow....had no idea Burial's production level or footprint was that small. I'm lucky I'm able to get Burial rather easily. Sorry for the somewhat thread hi-jack @Sixpoint. Again, it's pretty cool guys like you and @augiecarton come into these forums and shoot the shit with us.

 

the simple answer is it is everything. from shelf stability to brew house to tank size. when you solve for the chilling with something like Chief's cool pool (an episode) you move down stream to blended stability pre-packaging, which is solved with something like a centrifuge. there is technique to solve every problem and if you want to move into stabilizers algenatess and other available food tech we could drag into the brewery you can actually quite easily sort a way to mass produce a beer with each production issue sorted. so that a boss pour will look great on instagram, but again each step changes what I, Augie Carton, am talking about which is versions of these beers i want to drink: the best application of these ideas to create a new unique creative thing not "another"

 

Got it!

As always, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us on BA.

Cheers!

 

I think if someone like TreeHouse can make national distro and ensure freshness I think everyone wins. But yeah distribution is an issue, I think a Whole Foods scale retailer needs to take the first step and really emphasize freshness of hoppy beers and toss out old stuff like they would with vegetables and maybe throw up signs that tell you to check the date on the packaging before you buy. Stone and Lagunitas have obviously already made leaps and bounds and paved the way for someone like TreeHouse to really change the way at a large scale the access to fresh hoppy beer.

 

Unmentioned so far is the regulatory mess breweries face. What works for Sixpoint in New York state won't necessarily work in Utah, and only recently was permitted in Georgia. As I understand it, freshness never used to be a problem breweries overcame- beer was largely consumed where it was brewed.

In that sense, breweries have a McDonald's problem on their hands- they don't need a burger that can be made and flown across the country to be eaten and still taste fresh. They need a recipe and a process that can be replicated in many locales for local consumption only.

If indeed that was the approach a brewer took, then, bringing it back to Sixpoint's app, I think the focus on improving the process of buying and retrieving locally brewed beer is excellent, and long overdue.

Unless you like waiting in lines or drinking old beer.

 

agreed, but as of right now, they are doing virtually no distribution at all, but perhaps someone like Whole Foods with Amazon's logistics could change all that....

I think @augiecarton and I are saying the same thing here....the size of the brew kettles or fermenters are not the issue here, for every technical problem there is a technical solution....but you have ask yourself "why" you would be pursuing such an endeavor in the first place...yes, there are plenty of breweries out there right now, and we certainly don't need another "me too" joining the fold, especially with billions of capital at their disposal, looking to cash in on a hype train

@JackHorzempa @HeyLady @jmdrpi

 

I think the demand needs to start at the retail level, and the general public will come in and pay attention to / ask for fresh beer, and beer buyers at Whole Foods will in turn look at distributors and order fresh beer. I think the demand needs to be there first and the distributors will follow the money and buy accordingly. The problem is that the general public (non craft beer enthusiasts/hobbyists) don't know what they haven't had yet so as more people learn that many beer styles are best fresh (by process of tasting them) then the demand will make it's way through the distribution channels.

 

You really think non-craft beer geeks are going to pay $20 for a 4-pack of beer?

Scaling these beers needs to include pricing them accordingly.

 

Fresh beer does not have to be local beer. If you are in a town with no great brewery but a few supermarkets you should be still able to buy great beer. If the carbon footprint of moving beer around bothers you then eventually electric semi's will solve that issue (Cc: Tesla).