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Discussion in 'Mid-Atlantic' started by Vizualize, Sep 19, 2017.
a rosy glow...
ran there with a buddy and grabbed a couple of beers and my haul. had a really cool vibe. reminded me of j. wakefield in miami with the street art. pick up was easy, only had to wait 45 minutes. kidding. great job @Sixpoint. i appreciate a brewer/owner who also loves to post. regardless of the banter. cheers! will definitely be back. (bba 5 beans?)
p.s. i think the kolsch was my favorite beer. smoothie was nice but i think the name almost suggests a milkshake like ipa with a bit more of a lactose+oat+cream mouthfeel. i enjoyed it but it was more bitter than fruity. wish it was called NEIPA. toppen-ish is great. very crisp and great showcase of the farm's hops. well done. excited to try the raspy con sauce, will report back.
Thank you to each and every one of you, both BA's and non-BA's alike, for participating in today's inaugural release event. The day was an absolute blast and it was an honor to be able to host each of you in our home. Perfect beer drinking weather + killer tunes + ridiculously crushable empanadas made for an incredibly fun day.
The feedback on both the beer and the release event itself has been great thus far and the kind words are much appreciated. Please keep it coming and know that while we 100% enjoyed today, we're still always looking to find ways to improve and are always open to suggestions in order to make your experience the best that it possibly can be.
Stay tuned here and of course via the app as well for info on any future releases. We think you're going to be stoked for what's in the Pipeline...
Well we can't put your name on that wall anymore, because that spot is reserved for trolls. And trolls only lurk in the dark, mostly in their Mom's basement, and stay anonymous from behind their computer screens.
But its not like you aren't walking away with anything here....after all, you came down to the brewery and showed your face and had a great time and had great beer. That's a lot better than being miserable and spewing negativity all alone from behind a computer screen!
Thanks for rolling up today Sean, Newman'sOwn, Vizualize, jrnyc, dhaakon & mcshk, and hope to see you all at the next release in October. For the October 21st release, the fully developed Sixpoint 4.0 app will be in the iTunes store and Google Play store, as we're taking it out of beta mode....there is going to be a wave of innovation on that front, and the loyal customers and supporters who repeatedly come down for these initial releases will be rewarded over time....looking forward to sharing that with you....
oh and dhaakon - good news for you, the Kolsch is actually going to be making a debut next week for wider distribution.....more info on that likely tomorrow.....cheers
But your cognitive bias towards our brewery was already well documented before you just decided to write us off. Now you are just looking for an excuse to refrain, because you know that if you actually came down to the brewery it might blow up your confirmation bias against Sixpoint. Come down....>>>.....have awesome time.....>>>>>...drink great beer....>>>....meet the friendly people at Sixpoint.......>>>>....does this mean I can't hate them anymore?
Even though coming down is preferred, its not even necessary at this point to dissolve any confirmation bias. The evolution and progression of this thread, along with the feedback from yesterday's event refutes those biases and actually confirms the opposite. We're a product-focused, service-oriented, and innovation-driven company that seeks to constantly improve and reimagine a better experience for our customers. Anyone who came down to the brewery yesterday can confirm that - and they did exactly that in their feedback.
Nothing outlandish in our claims or Steve Hindy's remarks - yet you are more than welcome to come down to the brewery and discuss whatever issue you might have in person - I will carve out a time that works for you and we can chat over beers. But as I already said, arguing about those things is actually petty, and not really what's important here. What's important is we are going to unleash a wave of innovation and really take things to the next level with some big developments we have been working on. Some of these projects have been in the works for months or years.
But don't take our word for it, listen to what the customers are saying.....which brings me to my next prediction. Right now we may be the best kept secret, but that is not going to last long. After a few more of these releases, its probably going to go parabolic...
Ball is in your court @Fahmie25 you can pm or dial me direct at the brewery. cheers
I had a problem with the app got a fast reply. Asked for a raspy sauce got a fast reply. Picked up my beer in less than 2 min had a great time, drank FREE beer , heard some good music and spoke to some real nice people. So i'm asking for you share next time since your not buying .
Just wanted to chime in and thank all the folks @Sixpoint..great brews, REALLY great crew, super chill vibe. Show up grab your order then hang for as long or as short as you want. This is my idea of a beer release. I'll see you all at the next release.
This is the over the top stuff that's off-putting. Something can't be the best kept secret when it was the subject of two threads, this one gathering 7 pages in 2 weeks (and a third thread for Sixpoint's Smoothie), as well as 2 beers that sold out as quickly as they did. Where in all of that was the secret being kept?
It looks and sounds like it was an awesome day, cool, congrats, it could could be left at that. Rather, it sounds like now I'm being told I'm missing out and that I need to jump on this. It's one thing when it's from another BA who is proud of their spot (but weirdly trying to blow it up so they can eventually complain about what it's become), but when the message is straight from @Sixpoint , it feels like I'm aggressively being marketed to. Even if it is just from someone who has been in craft a long time, loves the industry, loves beer, and wants to spread that, consider the optics.
Pmd you. Not sure if people actually take you up on this offer, but I’m happy to swing by. I’ll hold off on further comment until then
@Fahmie25 @RobNewton No snark intended here, respect your opinions, if you guys want to hit next release, let's do it, we can hit SP and then Other Half. If weather is halfway decent and SP does what they did yesterday, will be a fun time.
Many have, they were just never heard from again. What happens in Red Hook....
You have it backwoods, hit Other Half wait in line to buy beer THEN go to SP where your beer is waiting.Then walk to Widow Jane have a shot or 2 and go back to SP.
That was the order I thought as well, though would certainly be a long day.
Shit, I would have gone if I'd know there was some sort of event. I thought people were just picking up beer.
Thanks, already hit you back with a PM - and looking forward to it!
"Unemployment was high and by the early 1990s, Red Hook was suffering from very serious problems: the deterioration of its physical fabric, abandoned buildings, illegal dumping of trash, poverty, skyrocketing drug use and violence. Life Magazine named it one of the ten worst neighborhoods in the U.S. and called it “the crack capital of America.” In 1992, beloved school principal Patrick Daly was killed in broad daylight at the Houses, caught in a crossfire when he went to look for a student who had left school upset after a fight that day."
Sounds like a lovely place to start a brewery! My how things have changed, even in the past 13 years we've been there.
People were just picking up beer, but it kinda morphed into something more. @jrnyc can probably shed some more light on that...we ended up having beers together for at least several hours! Also introduced him to Graham Gamache, our hop farmer who flew all the way in from Washington State....
It would be a much shorter day if you didn't have to waste a significant portion of it waiting in a line.
You bring up some fair discussion points here, and yes we are always willing to consider the optics. But we hope you would have a similar willingness to reassess what you wrote as well - its a two-way street.
We stand by the original comment "best kept secret" because as of right now, it is still largely an unknown happening amongst the general public in NYC to go to Sixpoint Brewery. We were not referring to folks on BA - they have a completely different level of awareness of the beer, brewery, and bar scene vs. the rest of the drinking public. The three threads on BA you mentioned (one was locked btw) are still only being read by the folks on BA, and not the broad demographic you need in order to hit a true critical mass. What I'm referring to is once these folks (those who are not the early adopters or how follow the beer scene closely) have a more widespread awareness of the situation, it most likely is going to get much more crowded. So in that sense, it is still the best kept secret (for now).
"It looks and sounds like it was an awesome day, cool, congrats, it could could be left at that."
It was left at that, but then there was an organic outpouring of responses and support from those who attended right after the event. We did not write those - but it is our goal to make sure people continue to have positive experiences.
"Rather, it sounds like now I'm being told I'm missing out and that I need to jump on this."
We did not say that - we said our prediction would be that after a few more releases, we'd see a spike in popularity. Whether or not you feel you are missing out is really up for you to decide.
As stated, our main focus right now is making sure the customer experiences stay positive, but as I mentioned, we also will be rewarding those who came in early and helped build something really awesome and special. Once something becomes popular, why should all of the people who supported from the very beginning have to deal with a massive amount of inconvenience going forward? We thought of that in advance, and are working on some innovating things to help reward these folks. We can share with you the details on that down at the brewery for the October release. So whether or not you want to participate in this is ultimately your choice, but the chance to get in on the ground floor is only a temporary reality.
btw - I know you like Berliner Weiss, so I saved a couple of the Lil' Raspy for you @RobNewton
@PapasDelicateCondition @ecpho @xmattxyzx
Speaking as someone who got growlers just so I could get Sweet Action, Sweet Reaction, Bengali Tiger, Autumnation, etc, before you guys canned anything, glad to see this and hopefully, if my old ass ever sees Brooklyn again, I can pop in at some point. Cheers.
Augie Carton gives his thoughts on the Sixpoint app in the new episodes of Steal This Beer. Scroll ahead to the last ten minutes or so.
Episode 129 - Evan Klein, Barrier Brewing http://www.stealthisbeer.com/episodes/2017/10/2/episode-129-evan-klein-barrier-brewing
Pretty good insight from Augie. He begins discussing the Sixpoint app when there is about 7:40 left in the ep.
Augie makes a great point, the idea that these smoothie beers would ever be distro’d is nonsense. They’re small batch. And why would a brewer want their beers sitting on a bodega shelf waiting for the consumer when the consumer can come to them?
This segment is great, I need to find the past discussions about brewing NE ipas on various size systems and the challenges therein.
If you do find this information please let me know. This is the first time I have heard that certain beer types can't be brewed on larger scale brewing systems.
@Sixpoint @sierranevadabill @honkey
I actually love his view and 100% agree re: the marketing aspect. This was largely what my issue with all of this stemmed from (the marketing tactics and what I consider to be largely deceptive marketing through the use of weird technicalities to be “the first to do X”), but I will voice that to Shane in person .
I don’t mind marketing, but when it feels like a car commercial (every car wins every award for being the best and first to do everything, under very narrowly defined circumstances), I get quite turned off.
I found their take on Sixpoint's marketing aspect very interesting too. Both what was said and left unsaid. How suddenly after 14 years of not having a local presence they see what the other Brooklyn breweries are doing and are following in a way. Kind of what I said earlier that wasn't answered. Also kind of a sly take down of both breweries that have to create hype as well as the fad of the hazy NEIPA market. Basically there are other beers that could or should be made but the need for haze now drives everything.
I don’t think it’s fair to say theyve had no New York presence in the past 14 years. They’ve been brewing in Red Hook for years. I’ve had their beers at festivals around the city and at bars as well.
As I said in my earlier post I was here in BK during their beginning and didn't really know about them. There was no public taproom that I knew of - unless I missed something. I know they were exclusively featured at Governors Island parties when the island opened to visitors - but then I had Apollo and some other bad experiences and found out that the beer was actually brewed in PA. So I was kind of turned off as other local breweries were opening up taprooms and the local craft movement took off. I think they should have made a move like this much earlier.
Its nice to see such a wide variety of reactions from people regarding the app, from consumers to wholesalers to beer lovers to fellow colleagues. With such a diversity of opinions on the matter, it shows that many are wondering but perhaps few see the big picture or implications. We've been in this position before - we believe we will be vindicated over time, but its up to us to prove that to you in order to see the value.
Not everyone has the ability to come and retrieve their beer; which is exactly the frustration of the caller who said he intrigued by the creativity and formulations but he doesn't have the capability to come get the beer himself. He wants all of the convenience of a traditionally distributed beer, but all of the features, freshness, and intimacy of the small-batch offerings. Herein lies the paradox - is it possible to have both? Time will tell.
There is a lot of debate right now within the industry as to whether or not certain styles truly can be scaled up, or whether or not there are physical constraints as to what scale you can achieve without fundamentally altering the beer.
I think its important to distinguish between "can't be brewed" and "aren't being brewed" - just because someone hasn't done it does not mean someone can't do it. To merge those two together and not challenge the assumptions would be defying the basic fundamentals of science. That's not Mad Science - that's just Bad Science!
In just about anything that's crafted/manufactured, its never going to be easy to just pull a few levers and scale up the production. To do so, it often requires some serious technical skill and engineering prowess, and a little bit of mad science - assuming its possible in the first place.
Hey wait, weren't you supposed to hold off until further comment until then? Didn't you just contradict your prior post and then contradict yourself again within the most recent post?
For real though, if it were not a noteworthy development, than no one would be writing or discussing it. Very few understand the actual long-term development of it (including colleagues who have gotten the facts right, but missed the point entirely). In the end, its up to us (Sixpoint) to prove to you that it actually will provide some value to you in the long run, so our energy and focus will be on proving that. As the English would say, "the proof is in the pudding."
Continually operating a craft brewery in the five boroughs for 14 years by very definition is having a local presence. With your logic, anyone who started brewing in Brooklyn after us would be following us - not the other way around.
If we really wanted to follow others, we would have launched 22 oz. bottles while everyone else was favoring that format at the time (instead we opted to do 4-packs of 16 oz cans in May 2011 when it was virtually unknown). Six years later, hundreds followed our lead. And the 22 oz. format is largely dead.
If we really wanted to follow others, we would have opened up a cookie-cutter taproom from the taproom starter kit and we could have done this years ago and probably made a lot of money and given a lot of high-fives. Instead we are taking the much, much harder path here and taking risk and choosing to do something entirely different. We launched the first phase of it last week (the native app). And yes, the native app is different than selling beer through a website or third party service, and the distinction is critical for aforementioned reasons, both by us and from customers. The next several phases of the app will be rolled out in sequence, and we will be continuing that spirit of innovation for the can releases and for the tap room.
"Basically there are other beers that could or should be made but the need for haze now drives everything."
If you were at the brewery last Saturday, you would have noticed we had the following beers for sampling/sale:
1) Classic Saison, 6.9% ABV
2) Kölsch, 4.9% ABV
3) Port Barrel-Aged Belgian Dubbel, 9.8% ABV
4) Smoothie, 7.2% ABV
5) Lil' Raspy Berliner Weiss (made with raspberry puree) 4.5% ABV
6) Toppen-ish farm to Pint IPA, 6.8% ABV
Anyone who looks at our current product lineup as well as our innovation pipeline can clearly see we are much more dynamic brewery than being a one-trick pony that has gone all-in on one style of beer. If you think there are other beers that could or should be made, maybe you should come down to the brewery and have a conversation with us about it. But to say one style is driving everything we are doing is completely wrong - you must have us confused with someone else.
Well, you need to have this conversation with your buddy Augie since he was pretty clear about "can't". You can listen to him discuss this at around the 36:00 mark of the Steal This Beer Episode #129 podcast. He stated that if you used large tanks "The beer changes what it is".
Well THAT sounds like the product of rigorous testing...
@Sixpoint your ability to Post So Hard and own a brewery is impressive. It makes me question how hard it is to do the latter .
I am not saying it can be done - I am saying its inconclusive to say it "can't" be done simply because 1) no one has done it yet, or 2) someone tried to do it by simply by scaling up a recipe without taking into account other mitigating factors and it failed. There would need to be more sophisticated and rigorous testing to prove/disprove any claim. The verdict is still out!
As our company has grown from a tiny startup business, I'm glad we never got so large or disconnected that my entire day is consumed by moving from one boring meeting to the next and never interacting with any customers. Sometimes I may just have 15 minutes here or there in the early morning or late hours of the night, but its still a pleasure to answer questions directly and provide the same type of care offered like when we first launched. And since this app is a whole new concept for us, it does feel very much like a startup all over again. cheers
What is the current scale of Trillium and the potential of the Charlton Tree House location? Also how about the Stone Fruitallica? Isn't Sip of Sunshine, while not as crazy hazy as others, brewed at Two Roads?
Or for that matter the size of Alchemist and HE? Cheers!
Agree with @makalarch. It is being done (NE IPA's on a "larger" scale that is) and anyone who says it "can't" be done isn't paying attention. Anyone who has been to Trillium Canton or the new Treehouse facility in Charlton has seen it 1st hand. You can no longer call what they are doing "small batch" as they are selling a ton of beer on a daily basis and brewing those beers with pretty good quality and consistency.
I think it comes down to what you consider large scale. Tree House has what, a 50BBL brew house? Yes, that is large but in comparison Founders brews on a 300BBL system.
True I wouldn't compare Treehouse and Trillium to the bigger well established craft breweries in terms of output but they are changing the "small batch" stigma that has always been associated with NE IPA's. And I'd say Lagunitas Born Yesterday would also disprove the myth that it can't be done.
Born yesterday is the exact beer I was thinking of too! It's in its on league as per nationally distributed hoppy beer and comparable to any "pick up at brewery" beer.
While I could see it taking some finesse I always thought the stigma of producing larger quantities is the ability to get them distributed as quickly and as fresh as possible.
Anyways I wish @Sixpoint luck on these endeavors and hope that some of these smaller batches can get scaled up and sent down here to Philly. It's also my hope that if they do strive to start producing some NE ipas they dial in a recipe with some of the established players in the field as inspiration and not put out another allllmoooost but not quite version of the style. (Not saying they have mainly commenting on some of the lesser examples out there now.)
My head hurts trying to read this thread. It is like watching a movie I have to think about after finishing a long day of work. I would rather just watch The Goonies for millionth time. Moving on...
Shane, I brew 5 gallon batches so I have zero expertise here.
Augie Carton claims that the so called 'NE' IPA "can't" be brewed large scale.
You state that the 'jury is still out'.
I will patiently wait to learn more both from you and Augie on this topic.
P.S. I do know that for Wyeast 2565 that a fermentation temperature of 60-62 degrees is the 'sweet spot' so I have that going for me!
That was one of the best beers I had last year. They were also able to get it to NY in 7 days.