I am doing two brews from Northern brewer and using their wyeast smackpacks which recommend a starter. I actually ordered a second smack pack per batch so my question is if I use 2 per batch can I skip the starter? I am sure some will say do it anyway but the real question is with 2 yeast packs will it turn out good without a starter?
The answer is 'probably.' But what's the volume and OG of your batch? And how old is the yeast? Here's a helpful calculator... http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html If you don't have a stirplate, make sure to select 'Intermittent Shaking' in the dropdown.
Not sure they just arrived yesterday I am at work currently. One is a Dunkel the other an Octoberfest. moderate ABV. Thank you for the info.
OG is 1.05 on the websight the calculator is saying 3.6 packs without starter. Wow I guess that answers my question. Thank you.
To make good beer it's a little more complicated than one or two packs. You really should learn to use a yeast calculator . . . here's two pretty good ones: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html http://yeastcalc.com/ You want to input several variables: OG, wort volume, date of yeast, ale vs. lager, then let the calculator help you make the decision. If a starter is needed, it also provides some pretty some guidance. In addition to increasing quantity of cells, starters also improve the health of yeast cells and can tell you definitely that the entire lot is active and ready to be pitched. My first two liquid yeast packs from NB were duds . . . they refunded, but a starter would have told me that before I pitched. IMO understanding the above and maintaining the correct ferm temp is the single most important part of making good beer.
I did a pilsner that turned out OK but these will be second and third lagers. I will most likely do a starter after using the Mr. Malty calculator.
As you have discovered, the yeast pitch rate calculators will provide an ‘answer’ that you need a lot of smack packs (e.g., 3.6 packs for this instance). In my opinion, the yeast pitch rate calculators have a number of conservative assumptions which will yield high values. Feel free to use these calculators since there is absolutely no harm in pitching a very large number of yeast cells. An alternative to the yeast pitch rate calculators is to follow the recommendations provided by the yeast vendors. Below is what Wyeast states concerning lager brewing: “Pitch Rate: Lagers typically have a reduced ester profile and are characterized as clean with discernable malt character. It is very important to recognize that pitch rate is directly related to ester production. Increasing the quantity of yeast pitched is the most effective method of reducing the ester profile in the finished beer. A minimum of 12 million cells per milliliter is recommended to keep esters at a minimum. One Wyeast Activator pack will deliver about 6 million cells per milliliter to 5 gallons of wort. In order to increase this rate to 12 million cells per milliliter it is necessary to either pitch two Activators or to make a 0.5 gallon (2 liter) starter with an Activator.” In my opinion, the two smack packs (assuming they are relatively fresh) will be sufficient for pitching into your lagers. Cheers!
OP: You can trust the calculator designers, whose motivation is to help you make better beer. Or you can trust the yeast manufacturers, whose motivation is to not make you think you need more of their yeast than the other manufacturer's yeast, so you'll buy from them. You may have noticed that the Wyeast advice mentions nothing about gravity of the wort. If you believe (and most do) that proper pitch rate is expressed in cells per volume per gravity, then any advice that ignores gravity is a bad model. Someone will probably mention 1.048 or 1.060 OG as some sort of dividing line. But gravity is continuously variable, not binary. So basically what I'm saying is... my advice is pick/believe whatever pitch rate you think is right, but make sure it's a true cell rate per volume per gravity.
Two smack packs of relatively fresh yeast is sufficient for the OPs lagers which are OG = 1.050. Cheers!
When using that MrMalty calculator, pay attention to the yeasts' production date, as this accounts for the # of live cells. I recall delaying my plans to brew one lager for a couple months or so, and realizing, when I was finally able to brew, that I needed to make a monstrously big starter. I ended up buying more fresh yeast and making a fairly big starter (instead of a monster!).
It might be. If that corresponds to the pitch rate OP (or whoever) wants. It will make beer. For me, it would be severely underpitching.
Peter, the Mr. Malty calculator has an assumption that 21% of the yeast cells die per month. I had a conversation with Dr. Chris White on this topic at the recent NHC in Philly. He informed me that this value of 21% is very conservative. There is no easy answer to what rate yeast cells die over time since it is yeast strain dependent. Dr. Chris White also informed me that after a 4 month timeframe there are still plenty of yeast cells alive in their vials (but needless to say it will be less than a fresh vial). Cheers!
It strikes me that these unknown factors are a good argument for building up a big pitch through proper aeration and big starters! I accept that MrMalty is conservative inasmuch as he suggests starter sizes that are more prone to err towards overpitching than underpitching.
There is absolutely no argument that making big starters is a bad idea. Just sharing some facts with you. As I have mentioned in past posts: brew the beers you like and brew them the way you like. Cheers!
