So...is it skunked?

No, of course not, but then neither have you. The fact that you can point to some cases of poorly trained judges being called in to make judgments they are not properly prepared for or shouldn't be used for doesn't change the fact that a great many of them have a backlog of experience and training to call upon in making their judgments on styles they are familiar with. The two are not perfectly comparable (analogous).

 

Diacetyl can be acceptable, though. I'm extremely sensitive to it, but also find it to work with the flavor and aroma profiles of their beers.

I never heard of a genetic predisposition against lightstruck qualities, though I suppose it can exist. It's an extremely easy one to test for, and even teach yourself- all you need is two identical (canned) beers and some direct sunlight.

I assume it's been on display for a while, too- given when I started getting it this year. Plus, for whatever reason, Hoffbrau green bottles seem to be worse than other types- almost like they have insta-skunk built into them. The only way to be sure with their stuff is to just buy a whole case.

I was just at a party last week, and they had an Einbecker Ur-Maibock mini keg which was still drinking really nicely. No lightstruck issues there, though it did take a few people to make the most of it...

 

But still... what? Every brewer has their own take on a style, look at all the IPAs on shelves, and it's difficult to argue with H-B -- after all, they've been brewing Maibock longer than almost anyone. Even style "guidelines" leave room for interpretation, just look at the BJCP stats on the style; they range almost 10 points one side to another (color, bitterness, ABV).

The best takeaway from this thread is to try every version of a style you can find -- and do your best to be sure it's fresh -- and make a decision for yourself. It's a dirty, thankless job -- but I think you're up to it!

 

Well, the Beethoven analogy isn't a very good one, since he was composing his own music, not judging the music of others. That would be like a homebrewer who couldn't recognize diactyl making his own beer, not judging a beer competition. And also, Beethoven was an experienced composer by the time he went deaf. Music composition and theory has well-known chord and tone relationships that can be written down in confidence without noodling on a piano to make sure they're right.

So using my analogy, you'd be OK with a color-blind judge picking winners at an art show? Or a deaf music critic writing reviews?

However, I agree that palates and experience differ and that's why there should always be more than one judge for beer competitions. See steveh's post about smoked beers.

 

Are you suggesting that art is only about color? As to the deaf music critic, I recall reading somewhere recently that 'music composition and theory has well-known chord and tone relationships', or words to that effect. Thus, couldn't the critic write a review based solely on a reading of the score?


When I'm seated on a panel, I advise the other judge(s) that I will defer to them on diacetyl.

 

That's true if you're sitting down to drink a beer. Judging is different. A beer is not scored according to how much the judge liked it. Rather, it's judged according to how closely it conforms to the published guidelines. That's one of the things that is worked on when preparing to become a judge. It's like a shooting contest. It doesn't matter how cool you look when you take the shot. Your score is based on how close you came to the target.

 

Don't forget Overall Impression -- that counts for 10 possible points (or used to).

Sure, that can be swayed by the style-fit, but it can also be swayed by how much a judge actually enjoys the beer.

 

A non-beer example is Phenylthiocarbamide. Its the chemical on the "supertaster" test strips. It tastes like paper to me, but its hilarious watching someone who has the gene to react to it. A friend of mine was scraping her tongue for about 30 minutes trying to get rid of the taste.

And it isnt really a non-beer example, as those who react to it usually cant deal well with hoppy beers. And yet, I know some who like bitter beer and react to the test.

 

Yeah, I almost did not include the Beethoven comment.

If you excluded all judges that have an inability to detect a compound, the pool of judges would be exceedingly small. We all have holes in our palete due to genetics.

I used to evaluate the N&V in vehicles as part of my job. When young I could hear up to 20k Hz. And the raster scan in a TV would drive me crazy. Now with age, I can no longer hear that high. When still working I was pretty good at evaluating cars. Judging has to do with one's senses and experiences. I judge beers in competitions, and when working with a judge for the first time state that I have a high diacetyl threshold and ask if they have any blind spots. Do you judge beer? Do you know your sensitivity to various compounds? Have to ask that.

 

TVs don't do that anymore. Maybe you're ok and just don't realize it!

 

I judge beers when I drink them. At competitions? No.

I can see we'll have to settle this contentious issue over some tasty beers if we ever meet.

 

I don't think I wrote that art is only about color. Are you suggesting that color isn't a component in a work of art?

A composer as experienced as Beethoven could write a composition without hearing it played, but there's more to performing a piece than just reading what's on the page. That's why there are conductors.

Just as beer judges taste the beer and don't just read the recipe, so music critics attend the performance and don't just read the score at home. So yes, a music critic would have to hear the piece being performed to critique it.

 

Ken Schramm did the PTC strips at the NHC a few years back. I got it, and it was intensely bitter, but for me it was gone in 5 minutes. I like bitter beer. One guy complained that it had not gone away after 20 minutes or so. About 20 % to 25% of the population is blind to it. A small amount are super tasters, and those might be the ones it lasts a long time for.
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/begin/traits/ptc/

 

I bet he was a lousy music critic though....

 

Not if it's one of my pencil or pen & ink portraits!

 

Black, white, gray...

 

No art schooling, eh?

(those aren't considered "colors")

 

FYI -- Being in NJ you may want to look for Ramstein's* take on the style. I've heard it's pretty good -- and having had some of their other brews, know that they do a great job on German styles.

(*High Point)