I'm planning on brewing a sour in the next week or so using wyeast 3924 Belgian Wheat and then adding 5112 Brett B and 5526 Brett Lambicus. I've brewed once with Brett B and had good results by just adding the Brett to the primary of a Saison when the saison had gotten to about 1.015 and I didn't make a starter for the Brett B. This being my first time using Brett Lambicus, my question is should I add it and the Brett B at the same time after about a week of fermentation and should I make a starter for either? Also, should I add them to the primary or should I transfer the beer to a secondary vessel and then add the two Brett strains? It's going to be sort of a sour biere de garde sorta beer with an OG of about 1.070 Thanks in advance.
Your plan sounds good. I would rack to secondary. get it off the old yeast. no starter, if you were using WL definitely make a starter. what mash temp are you using? I've been mashing at a higher temp than normally to leave more on the table for the brett. sounds like a good beer.
Haven't figured out my temps yet but it'll be on the higher side. Excited, just hope I can be patient enough to let the Brett do its thing.
Whether to rack is up to you. Leave in primary and you will get more funk, rack off if you want to reuse the yeast.
Yes very true. Do you think the full yeast cake is necessary? If he racks before terminal gravity there will still be yeast in suspension to feed brett. I've never done this side by side so i'm just going off the top of my head. for me brett funk has been more of a question of time. Not trying to be argumentative, just looking for your experiences.
It's going to be tough to make a sour with out any bugs. If you're pitching the Brett second there is no need to make a starter. The extra work the Brett will need to build up numbers should aid in providing funk. The same goes for racking off of the yeast. Up to you but you don't have to, depends what you're going for in the end. I would also add the Brett at the same time, it would only make a difference if you were talking about adding one when you pitch your sacc and the other later or pitching one at terminal gravity then the second a few months later. But if you want the beer to be sour not just funky you'll need to add bugs.
I have only brewed with Brett a few times but it has been my experience that Brett produces funk; it did not produce any sour flavors in my beers. I want to state +1 to: “It's going to be tough to make a sour without any bugs.” Cheers!
I guess I should of titled this thread "Wild/Brett Question," I'm aware that it won't be sour in the lambic sense but will have a rustic "funk" more than anything. Was in a hurry when I started the thread. Thanks for your help!
Sooooo we're back to the brett souring questions... Depending on what strain of brett you use you will get a perceptible amount of tart and sour. Brett B probably won't but I've heard lambicus can and will drop our pH and add some tart to the mix. As for secondary, when brett is in the fermenter it is my understanding that autolysis is not an issue and the brett will keep things clean. I can say that wlp670 American farmhouse contains brett, and after fermentation was done there was some funk, but more brett tartness to the beer, almost like a lacto-esque tartness.
tart and sour are different. as are sour in the lambic-sense and rustic funk. want a sour biere de garde? or a brett-ed biere de garde?
The reason I was asking is because each style is acidified by two different types of bacteria each producing different types of acid.
Citric, acetic, lactic, malic, malo-lactic, all are acids, and all can be present in a sour beer (depending on bugs as well as fruits used), and all taste/feel different. Also in different concentrations they cause much different levels of sour. A hint of acetic in a Lambic can be good, more in a Flanders Red is nice, too much and you are drinking malt vinegar. Same with lactic, a tartness from a low amount of lactic is much different from high levels of it in a Lambic.
