Sours vs. Infection

For the ales that are Spontaneously fermented are yes. The first beer made was a mistake. as all good things are usually.lol, joke.

I hate the BJCP catch all phase Sour. I prefer to talk about each type of beer on its on and frankly I really hate the term "wild ale". But to each his own. Brewers label, we drink.

a Lambic is different from a Flanders red or brown, etc etc. to use the proper and old Belgian terms.

 

Essentially, the word "infected" is a misnomer when it comes to any fermented product, since, in truth they are ALL infected.

It's just a question of whether or not the are infected with the specific yeast strain/microbe that is desired/intended.

The organisms that ferment wilds and sours were, for many many many years, considered undesirable, or "infectious." Of course, before that, they were the standard, since the cultivation of yeasts and organisms for brewing is a "relatively" new revelation. For millenia, fermented beverages were always fermented spontaneously.

The term "infected" is essentially used to describe a beer or product in which something other than the desired microbe is the one that created the fermentation. So, no, wilds and sours are not "infected," they are specifically created with those organisms in mind.

 

Sours are intentionally "infected".

 

so open fermentation is something you can control? I guess its a matter of understanding the term but bugs floating down from the open roof is my ideal of infection. oh well.

when i patch the yeast its under some control. anything that falls in after is not under my control, and therefore an Infection. Now which yeast wins the battle matters....oh course.

 

Precisely. A whole world in there.

 

As I said, in essence, ALL beer is infected, but it's an issue of desired effect vs undesired. Specific regions have specific strains of wild airborne yeast (hence the nomenclature of lambics [Lembeek Valley] and the specific strain of yeast derived from that area).

So, yes, they are infected, but not "infected" the way we use it here, as a synonym for "bad."

 

yea I seen the tanks on the tour, lol. I love that area.

 

I tend to think of it in these terms:

Inoculated = good, desired results
Infected = bad, undesired results

 

got into the wort by themselves = infected. naturally.

 

"Infected" beers usually have untoward phenolics and harsh solvent-like overtones. Sours have pleasant phenolics from the Brett and a mix of smooth acidity (lactic/acetic).

 

You do know not all open fermented batches of lambic turn out good right? some days the bad bugs win.....

 

I was going to say just that.
It is a fine line, but IMO sours, including lambic, geuze, Flanders, etc, are intentionally exposed, under semi-controlled conditions, to allow wild bugs in.
INfections are something that is not intentionally done. Can be because of sanitation, errors, or who knows what else, but generally infections result in unpleasant beers. Occasionally an unintentional infection can result in something good, but very unlikely.

 

I've heard the term 'funky' sometimes applied to sour beers as if a beer that carries that descriptor is something different. How does that term fit in to this discussion, if it is any different at all?

 

"Sour" is not a term trademarked or cornered by any particular organization.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sour+beer

 

I know that my spontaneously fermented lambics don't turn out right occasionally . . . that's why I blend.

 

lol, that was funny. But sadly out of context.

 

? You wrote: "I hate the BJCP catch all phase Sour. I prefer to talk about each type of beer on its on and frankly I really hate the term "wild ale". But to each his own. Brewers label, we drink."

 

I do not get your point does not BJCP group those beer under the sour label?
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style17.php

You can hate my point but its just my opinion. YOU can call it ANYTHING you want.

also wild ale is another slang term of sours, I seen it on here for years.

 

My point was EVERYONE calls them sours including competition organizers like GABF and the AHA. Why single out any organization?