Spare Ingredients - help us build a beer!

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017.

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  1. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    My dad and I are kit brewers, and somehow we found ourselves with the following spare ingredients between the two of us (I think we had a SMaSH kit and just lost the box, and 1oz of hops apparently):

    • Lallemand (Danstar?) BRY-97 dry yeast
    • 6lb Pilsen LME
    • 3oz Simcoe

    The kit I believe we had brews a session pale ale, but we are more interested in something a little bigger and badder. I'd love to brew an ESB, we always love IPAs, but of course we'd be interested to try almost anything. So I'm basically asking for recommendations for additional ingredients for whatever recipe you can come up with using these ingredients. Scoring is based on originality, plating, and flavor. Don't get chopped.

    We don't know about the characteristics of the yeast (we always just use what's in the kit). I get nervous because I know some are more aggressive than others, and some strains should be avoided for certain styles...

    I look forward to seeing what you all come up with, and hopefully this is a good learning opportunity for me.
     
    #1 Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017
  2. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Creativity isn't necessarily my strong suit. I usually prefer to not fight my ingredients, and yours are screaming a nice straight forward American Pale Ale to me.

    I really don't see how to make an ESB out of this. None of the base ingredients are typical.

    Personally, looking at your ingredients, and if didn't want a Simcoe pale ale, I would scrap the yeast, buy WY2575 and an ounce of a noble hop, and combine that with the Simcoe to make a SN Kolsch clone. I miss that beer.
     
    #2 scottakelly, Apr 27, 2017
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  3. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    Good insight, thanks! I always thought ESB would be constructed similarly to a Pale Ale so I thought I'd mention it.

    Do you think with the addition of a good steeping grain and maybe some centennial, we'd be on the right track to a good IPA?

    BTW the Kolsh sounds good. I think we'd be willing to try it but we both lean heavily toward heavier gravity brews. The booziness hides our noobery. :stuck_out_tongue:

    I was reading a little earlier in your thread about S-04 and I had to wonder if our frequent use of it (it's what comes in the kits!) is what is giving our beers that 'amateur homebrewer' flavor that I don't care for. But like I mentioned - I don't know the ins and outs of yeast, but I do know it's possible to choose wrong yeasts, so I've never experimented with it, and I wouldn't know where to start.
     
    #3 Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017
  4. machalel

    machalel Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2012 Australia

    If you're not against going out and getting a bit more supplies, then how about*:

    6lbs Pilsen LME
    3lbs Wheat DME
    5oz Amber Candy Syrup (can just make your own)

    1.0oz Simcoe @ 60 min
    1.0oz Simcoe @ 10 min
    0.5oz Orange Peel @ 5 min
    0.1oz Ground Coriander Seed, 5 min
    0.5oz Simcoe @ flameout
    0.5oz Simcoe @ Dryhop

    That will get you 5.5Gal of ~6% ~50IBU "not really but kinda" White IPA
    :stuck_out_tongue:






    * Just threw it together, so feel free to modify / fiddle.
     
    #4 machalel, Apr 27, 2017
  5. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Lots of homebrewers like S-04, so I don't want to be a buzzkill to someone who likes it. But it's not for me. If I'm using it I want an English yeast character and I just don't get it from S-04.

    I do think that most of the "Homebrew" character new brewers pick up on is usually due to the yeast, however. Either wrong yeast selection or bad fermentation practices.

    If you go with the pale ale or IPA route, the ingredients you have will work fine. The difference to me is the gravity and IBUs. More and you have an IPA and less a Pale Ale. I wouldn't worry about adding Centennial. I like Centennial but Simcoe alone will make a nice beer and give you a feel for that hop profile.

    Don't fear the low gravity styles like Kolsch. There is a lot of flavor, and nuance, to pick up from those styles. Sometimes the project calls for the claw hammer, and not the sledge, imo.
     
    #5 scottakelly, Apr 27, 2017
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  6. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    No Buzzkill happening. I don't 'like' it, I just don't know what the alternatives are, or how they differ in their own particular ways.

    Good point about maybe sticking with Simcoe, would be good to get a feel for that particular strain.

    Believe me, I love a good kolsch, gose, etcetera - but this is for both my dad and I, and we tend to have a preference for heavier beers. This beer is 3rd in line and we don't get to brew often, however, so we have some time to think about it. Maybe it would be worth tossing this yeast and giving your recommendation a try. I would need more details though (brewing timeline, etc.).

    As it stands, maybe we'll just try to get our hands on another 1 or 2 ounces of Simcoe and do the Pale Ale. But - Might it be worth picking up some steeping grains? I guess this is what I was getting at. We are not as big on APAs, we love IPAs. How would you recommend achieving a solid IPA recipe based on what we already have? (That's probably a better way of asking the question I meant to ask in the OP).
     
    #6 Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017
  7. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Personally, I don't see a difference necessarily between an IPA grain bill and Pale Ale. It's just the gravity. You can make a great IPA with only Pilsner malt. You can make a great IPA with other malts, it just depends on what you want. Myself, I like my IPAs dry and hop forward, so I would be comfortable with no additional steeping grains.
     
    #7 scottakelly, Apr 27, 2017
  8. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Toss the Bry 97 yeast in the trash. Personally the worst yeast I ever used.

    Replace with Nottingham or s 05.
    Steep .5 lb of L10
    1lb cane sugar in the boil.
    1 oz cascade 60
    1 oz chinook 15
    1 oz simco 5
    2 oz simco DH 3-5 days

    Yahoo
     
    #8 GormBrewhouse, Apr 27, 2017
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  9. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    Good call... how would you recommend upping the gravity a bit? (Yes I am one of those guys :grinning:)


    How would you recommend upping the gravity a bit? Just a bit more of the Pils malt?
    I'm intrigued by your specificity, can you tell me a bit more about this brew? What is it you like about the yeasts you mentioned?
     
    #9 Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017
  10. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    Sorry for the double quote @scottakelly, one of them doesn't show up when I try to edit.
     
    #10 Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017
  11. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    No problem.

    You could up the gravity in several ways. Steep a crystal malt as @GormBrewhouse mentions. You could buy more pilsner malt extract. If you want some more malt character but want to keep it dry my preference would be to buy some Munich malt extract to get me to the gravity I want. I just ran a quick calculation and 4 pounds of liquid Munich malt extract should get you to an OG around 1.070, assuming a 5 gallon batch.
     
    #11 scottakelly, Apr 27, 2017
  12. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    This is where my inexperience is a headache. I want to experiment with options so I can learn - so I'm intrigued by the crystal malt which I've never used, but maybe for research purposes I'm best off keeping it a SMaSH... You think 4 more pounds of Pils, a couple more ounces of Simcoe, and maybe trying one of the yeasts recommended by @GormBrewhouse would do me well?
     
    #12 Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017
  13. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    What is the alpha acid % of the Simcoe? I can work up a hop schedule for you.
     
    #13 scottakelly, Apr 27, 2017
  14. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Steeping a crystal in an extract brew is as easy as making a long cup of tea with a bag.
     
    #14 crcostel, Apr 27, 2017
  15. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    looks like 12-14 per this source: http://www.hopslist.com/hops/dual-purpose-hops/simcoe/

    That's about what I imagined. What sort of characteristics can I expect it to bring to the beer? Sounds more convenient than adding more LME, which is a bit of a pain. At the same time though, a straight pils bill would teach me a bit about pils malt.
     
    #15 Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017
  16. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    S 04 and Nottingham are my preferred yeast strains for a pale or IPA because they work quickly and reach the FG I am looking for routinely. I also like what taste they impart to the brew. In my experience it is close to neutral. I want to taste the hops and malts. Not other yeast esters and other items.

    Remember it's all personal preference. I use dry yeast ,others swear by liquid, both make great beers.

    Steeping grains is not a pain and can add different characteristics to your beer. Extract is quicker but it lessens your options. I want all the options possible.
     
    #16 GormBrewhouse, Apr 27, 2017
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  17. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    It's hard to bump the gravity up without adding some more LME. It would take a lot of crystal malt to get you there.

    Here's what I worked up...
    9lb Pilsner LME
    1lb Crystal 10L (steeped prior to boil at 155 degrees)
    .5 oz Simcoe at 60 minutes
    .5 oz Simcoe at 20 minutes
    1 oz Simcoe at 10 minutes
    1 oz Simcoe at flameout
    .5 oz Simcoe dry hop

    This should end up giving you an ABV somewhere around 6.8%

    Try the Nottingham yeast. It's great for IPAs. Just keep it cool, between 60 and 65.
     
    #17 scottakelly, Apr 27, 2017
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  18. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    O yeah I forgot to use your extract in my recipe My bad!
     
    #18 GormBrewhouse, Apr 27, 2017
  19. Hop-Droppen-Roll

    Hop-Droppen-Roll Initiate (0) Nov 5, 2013 Minnesota

    This looks good.

    Couple Questions. Why add the crystal now that we've got 9lb lme? Also, how long does it steep, 30min?

    Couple Notes. I see your recipe here has 2.5oz simcoe. This leaves me with an extra .5oz, which I imagine I would add to the dry hop. Only .5oz at 60 isn't much for an IPA in my very limited experience, but I think this would be an interesting beer with a nose full of hops and a nice toasty flavor on the palate.

    I want to take your recommendation on the yeast, but I don't know if we can swing that 60-65 degree ferment. We've been fermenting in my dad's basement so I'll have to check with him and see what he thinks. If that's not doable maybe we go with S-04.
     
    #19 Hop-Droppen-Roll, Apr 27, 2017
  20. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    If you use the crystal you will get a little extra body, color, and a slight taste difference. You could also skip it and go with 10 lbs Pilsner LME instead.

    I forget how long to steep crystal malts, lol. It's been way too long since I've done an extract brew. It's not long, they don't need to be converted. Someone else can chime in or consult howtobrew.com.

    If you have the extra .5 oz of Simcoe just throw it into the dry hop. This recipe should give you a good feel for the flavor and aroma of Simcoe. I think the bitterness level is spot on for an IPA, imo.

    if you have to ferment warmer, I would go with US-05 over S-04. See my recent thread, lol.
     
    #20 scottakelly, Apr 27, 2017
    crcostel, Hop-Droppen-Roll and GormBrewhouse like this.
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