Sparging etc.

What you're doing is similar to a 'no sparge' technique, but instead of adding all the water in the mash up front, you're adding some of it to mash out. What makes this different from the way most people batch sparge is that you're not lautering 'first runnings' before adding the sparge water. There's nothing wrong with this, though it will result in a lower mash efficiency.

But none of this has anything to do with your problem of low volume. For that, you need to account for the volume of water (wort) that will be left behind in the grain bed due to absorption, plus the volume of water (wort) that will be lost in the 'dead space' at the bottom of your mash tun. Once you know these values, you need to add them to the volumes of water you'll use for your strike and/or sparge water.

 

The mash process I've settled on for normal strength beers is:

Mash in with 1.5qts of water per pound of grain I'm using.

Calculate how much boiling water it will take to raise the mash to 170, add that at the end of the mash to mash out

Vorlauf and drain off first runnings

In the meanwhile, I estimate how much water I'll need to use to sparge to get to my target preboil volume (typically 6.75 or 7.25 gallons for a 60 or 90 minute boil). I add the 1.5qt/lb mash in and the # of qts used for mash out, and then subtract 2qt for mash tun dead space and 4qt per 10lbs of grain used for absorption. That number is what I estimate my first runnings to be. The difference between that and my target preboil volume is how much I need to batch sparge with. Typically I'll divide that number in half and batch sparge twice, I believe I get a small efficiency bump. Once I vorlauf and drain those second and third runnings, it's off to the boil.

 

It reads like you are only a half step away from batch sparging like Vikeman says. If you don't have enough pre-boil volume, then you are in great shape to go ahead and try batch sparging to get to the preboil volume you need (just add hot water!). It will also improve your sugar extraction from that pile of grain in the mash tun.

The ultimate in efficiency is fly sparging, but if you aren't too worried about that and don't want to supervise the sparge in a hands-on manner, then batch sparging is for you. Your results will improve just by trying it.

 

first off dont set the volume you mash with, this should change depending on your grain bill. Personally Ive found about 1qt/lb of grain to be about perfect in terms of mashing.

Next, it would be good to raise up the mash to 170F, to do this it is ok to add boiling water. use an online calculator to determine how much water you need.

You can now start draining, you should recycle the first couple of quarts back into the mashtun to remove debris in the wort. Now you can either batch sparge (drain all liquid out and refill, repeat) or you can fly sparge (slowly add more liquid to the mashtun as the level drops(you want about 1" of hot water above the grain bed at all times).

As for not getting the correct volume, your not sparging enough (a big reason your efficiency is likely low) you should sparge with more liquid than you mash with (unless doing a full volume mash) This will help you to extract a lot more sugars. To get the correct volume you need to know your boil off rate, assume 15% if you dont know (you can adjust in future batches) so for a 5gal batch you need to get about 6.25gal of wort into the boil kettle

 

Are there any benefits or disadvantages to adding sparge water and mixing the grains again and then running the wort out? Vs. the fly method stated above, where you keep a head space of about an inch above the grains at all times? I assume this method is done in a manner, where you do not disturb the grains? Seems to me that mixing it up again will yield more sugars from the grain.

I currently all grain brew using the method where you mix the sparge water and am just seeing if the fly method yields better Mash efficiency.

 

There is a lot written about this topic by experts, and while I am no expert, it does seem reasonably uncontroversial that fly sparging with proper technique, using proper water volumes, temperatures and flow rate out of the mash tun, does yield the best efficiency for sugar extraction from the grain.

I haven't tried it, but I have seen many folks claim that good technique with batch sparging does fairly well, too, and may even be nearly as good. The biggest advantage with batch sparging, though, seems to be that its an easy, hands-off way of sparging that lets you do other things nearby. You have to pretty much stand over and watch carefully while you fly sparge the whole time, but once you are running clear and are done recirculating (as I understand it), with batch sparging you just let it drain.

 

I always do the English method of sparging where I mash with 1.25-1.5 quarts/lb at 150-154 F, let sit for an hour, and drain (I'll vorlauf the first gallon or two in order to get a clearer wort). After the first runnings have drained completely I will add water at about 200F (which raises the grain temp to 170-174), stir, and let sit for another half-hour. Then I drain that, add it to the first runnings, and boil. Typically, if I hit all my target temps, I will get between 75% and 90% efficiency. I usually will lose 2-2.5 gallons of the first runnings to absorption, so I account for that with my sparge water in order to get the correct boil volume.

For example, for a 10-gal batch using 20 lb grain, I will mash with 30 qts (7.5 gal). I will extract about 5 - 5.5 gallons of first runnings, then add another 7 - 7.5 gallons of sparge water at 200F, stir, let it sit for 30 min, then drain, ending up with approx 12 gallons to boil.

 

If you have a pump or can set up a hot liquor tank above the tun with spigot this isnt true, and I would say that batch sparging is actually quite a bit more work than fly sparging.

With batch sparging you have to vorlauf each time you add water and stir, and I like to make sure that nothing is left in the wort coming out of the tun, so it would take considerably more time for me to batch than fly sparge. Fly spargin also does not take as long as most people think. I fly sparge in generally less than 30min, and almost never get less than 85% efficiency and typically higher.

 

I only fly sparge. I thought folks batch sparged because it was more hands-off and "easier" in some way. I have always wanted to get the most from the grain that I could, and don't mind continuous attention to what I am doing when I sparge. That's why I have a hobby.

From what you say, it sounds like with a little more practice I will not feel the need to pay continuous attention, but for now I seem to be correcting the flow rate out of the tun a lot, and I feel compelled to keep looking at it to see if it seems to be going (usually) slowly enough.

 

"All other things being equal", fly sparging will result in better mash efficiency. It's because the wort left behind in the grains and in the mash tun dead space will be lower gravity (less sugar) due to continuous dilution during the fly sparge. With batch, you're not continuously rinsing, so the wort left behind is higher gravity (i.e. more sugar). More sugar left behind means less in your boil kettle.

To me though, the advantage of fly sparging (efficiency), is outweighed by the simplicity of batch.

 

Thanks VikeMan i understand what you are saying. I just figured that stirring and or maybe letting the sparge water sit for a little while could possibly be pulling more sugars out of the grains. Constantly running water through the grains seems better to me now.

I started thinking about it and when you are mixing the sparge water every time with the Batch method, we are disturbing all the fine grains and such which are probably un-fermentables. Probably runs a higher risk of getting those un-fermentable into your boil pot. I like the idea of only running the beer out once to get it to run clear. This should be less riskof collecting the un-fermentables.

I will be making a Barley wine on Monday with 20 lbs of grain to yield 5.5 gallons. I will try this fly sparging method and see how my Original gravity comes out. It will require more time spent at the mash tun, but it's all for fun in the end anyways!

 

Just some info for you, I am shooting for 5.5 gallons of beer, but i will be using 10-11 gallons of water for my sparging. with 20 lbs of grain i will probably loose at least 2 gallons of water to absorption of the grains. After Sparging i should have about 8.5-9 gallons of wort.

I will then boil this down to yield my target Original gravity of 1.112 and or until i reach my yield of 5.5 gallons.

So remember that too much water is not a bad thing, you can and should boil it down to your expected volume. The more water you run through your grains the better efficiency you will get in return. Don't get too crazy though because if you run tons of water through, you will start to get off flavors when you run out of sugar in the grains.

Remember that you will lose water at boil out due to evaporation anyways through out your possible 60 minute boil. Sometimes you have to boil for 1-2 hours to get the wort level down to 5 gallons.

Good luck on the next batch

 

Question for you guys on the fly spargin method. Do you still let the grain sit for an hour with your starter water, and then start fly sparging?

 

Im assuming your talking about how long we mash? That really is a separate issue from sparging, and for mashing Ive done beers as quick as 15min, but generally wait 30, then vorlauf for 15min

 

Yeah, just checking to see if you still Mash with this method. I am not familiar with fly sparging until now.

 

If you are talking about your initial infusion of water into dry grain, yes, that is the mash, as opposed to the vorlauf (recirculation) or sparge (rinse). At least that's what I call the stages, although lauter is sometimes applied to everything from mashout to draining into the brew kettle.

I usually mash about an hour, though sometimes it's ready in as little as 30 minutes, or as long as 90 minutes. If you want to check for conversion with an iodine test, you can potentially move on more quickly.

After the mash, be prepared to sparge for a while if fly sparging. You want to add the hot water slowly while draining off the wort, and the idea is to make the clear water push down the sweet wort trapped in the grain. Think of making a black and tan, with the water layer going on top of the heavier sugary wort layer, and that's pretty much the main idea. The grain helps you by creating a filter bed during the recirculation stage, and also by keeping the liquid still when adding water on top of it slowly and gently. You want to stop when the liquid draining out runs clear and is no longer sweet, or you are at your target boil volume in the kettle.

 

Thanks i will have to try this out.

 

I mash for an hour (typically), then fly sparge.