Starters for beginners

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by kdb150, Sep 20, 2013.

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  1. kdb150

    kdb150 Initiate (0) Mar 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Having read much on this subject, and discussed it with other homebrewers, I have concluded that a starter is something I should be doing for most, if not all of my brews. I, of course, have a lot of questions. So . . .

    Is it always prudent to use a starter, or is there an ABV below which it's not really worth it? Is a smack-pack more viable without a starter than a vial or dry yeast?

    What is an ideal starter time? Getting a starter going more than ~24 hours prior to pitching will require multiple trips to the homebrew store for one batch, which I would very much like to avoid.

    What do you use? It seems DME is the most commonly used item; my understanding is that you let the yeast rip, let them settle out, and then pitch - which ties into my time question, as well as wanting to confirm that pouring off the excess liquid ensures the DME has no effect on color or flavor, correct?

    That's it for now, I'm sure I have more Q's to come. Thanks!
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You'll need to find a model and/or pitch rate you're comfortable with. The Mr. Malty and YeastCalc calculators are a good place to start. Whatever model you choose, I strongly recommend thinking in terms of cells per volume per gravity. The calculators can do that for you, or you can do it yourself. A smack pack is no more or less viable (on average) than a vial. I recommend avoiding any advise that says 'below X gravity you don't need a starter

    Why would you need multiple trips to the store for one batch? You can indeed pitch a 24 hour old starter into your beer wort, but this will not give you time to crash and decant it first. I always crash and decant my starters. It (mostly) removes an undesired flavor variable from the finished beer.

    I use DME. And yes, decanting does reduce flavor impact. Not only from the DME (though that's a factor), but also it's about the fact that the conditions you make a starter under are somewhat different than typical good fermentation conditions (because the goals are different). So it's also the yeast derived starter flavors you're trying to avoid by decanting.
     
  3. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    I've been using starters for the past couple years, and I found that the quality of my beers have gone up since I started. I know a couple others will chime in with their experience, but I'll kick in with mine.

    I use them for almost everything. I have read that if your starting gravity is under 1.040 - 1.050 or so, you don't really need to, but I think of it as better safe than sorry. Actually, dry is the one you apparently do not need to do one for with most brews. An 11 gram packet will have enough cells to get through the first phases of working that it won't stress them too much.

    I'll start mine 24 - 48 hours before brew time. I've done as little as 12 hours and as much as 60 hours or so, haven't noticed as much of a difference. I keep DME on hand at all times, even though I've moved to all-grain brewing. I also get everything I need for the brew at once - the grain won't go bad in a couple days, and the yeast and hops go into the fridge until I'm ready to brew.


    What I do for my starters is to boil a quart of water, add a cup of DME (others will give more precise amounts) and 1/8 tsp of yeast nutrient. Boil about 15 minutes, then cool and put into a jar (I use an old growler, cleaned and sanitized) pitch the yeast and keep in a cabinet. Out of light, but I read that keeping it around 70 degrees - room temp - gives best results. I give mine a swirl every time I walk past. Others use stir plates and so forth.
    I personally just dump the whole thing into my beer - extra light DME won't make a difference in color on most beers, and the extra quart is negligible to final numbers.
    However, the "correct" way is to give it about 36 -48 hours, then into the fridge night before brew day, to let them settle out. Onto the counter when starting brew, to let it warm back up, and decant most of the liquid out. Give the rest a really good swirl and pitch into the brew once cooled and in the fermenter.
     
  4. kdb150

    kdb150 Initiate (0) Mar 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Awesome replies, thanks guys!

    I may be overthinking it, but I have read that cracked grains, even sealed in a bag, should be used as soon after cracking as possible. If the starter is much more important to the beer quality, I'd happily ditch that line of thinking. Ideally I'll get my own mill soon and it won't be an issue, but I'm not there yet.
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    It's true that cracked grains will stale faster than whole grains. But I have never had cracked grains sitting around for more than a few hours, so I can't say what the impact of a few days would be, or even if it's detectable.
     
  6. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Obviously sooner rather than later is better, but as long as they aren't out in the open, a week or 2 won't affect the grains. A couple of months and you;'re looking at stale, but I've held mine with no problems.
    Yeah, definitely making a starter will result in better beer (all other things being equal) than a week-old crush of grain.
    WHen I get to have a full-time brewing area I will get into cracking my own also; you get better prices on big sacks of grain versus a pound at a time, and you have more control over the crush.
    Keep in mind that even uncrushed grain will get stale eventually, though it will take longer than crushed. You'll need to keep it in airtight containers when you have a stock.
     
  7. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Cracked grains will be fine over the course of a few days. Kept sealed and dry at room temp, Ive read of people using them after a week or more. Consider this, if you order an all grain kit online, the grains (if you requested them to be) have been crushed from the time they left the store until they make it to your doorstep.
     
  8. kdb150

    kdb150 Initiate (0) Mar 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    OK, final and most important question - how upset/angry will my wife get if she opens the refrigerater and sees a large flask of yeast starter sitting there?
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Sorry, I don't have much experience with your wife.
     
  10. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts


    My wife doesn't mind, but I'm currently averaging about 1 batch a month. If I had concurrent starters going she would probably be a little annoyed.

    Other things to consider:
    How big is your fridge?
    What would said starter displace?
    Would your wife like the beer?
    How are you at apologizing/groveling?
    How good are you at back rubs/foot massages?
     
  11. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    In addition to Vikeman's advice (on starters, not matrimony), these two links will provide good guidance:
    http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.php
    http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

    Yeast grows in a non-linear manner. This means that a 2L starter does not give twice as much growth as a 1L starter, same as a 0.5L does not give half the growth. Those crazy little yeasties have their own way to doing things. You can figure this all out with some complicated looking graphs . . . or let the calculator do it for you.
     
  12. clearbrew

    clearbrew Initiate (0) Nov 3, 2009 Louisiana

    Just tell her that your girlfriend doesn't mind.
     
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  13. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah


    Given that you are brewing your own beer, it is only a matter of time until you have a second fridge in the garage for putting your bottled beer in (so you don't fill the main fridge with 2 cases of IPA). Leave a spot in that fridge for the starter. This should help keep her happy, as well as brewing a batch for her at some point (along with back rubs and foot massages).
     
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