Starting a tiny Brewpub/Craft Beer Bar

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by OldWade, Sep 25, 2013.

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  1. nickfl

    nickfl Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2006 Florida

    Sounds like you have already had enough bad news on this, but here is a little more. The local zoning guy who told you that you are exempt from ADA requirements because you are grandfathered in is wrong. The city may not care, but you are still liable under the ADA if you fail to make "reasonable" accessibility accommodations. In almost all cases, reasonable means strictly complying with all ADA guidelines. The ADA is a federal law and there is no getting around it, the local authoritys have nothing to do with it. If you don't comply you are asking for a lawsuit you absolutely cannot win. I'm speaking from experience here. Our business has been in the same building since the late 80s and despite local zoning telling us we were grandfathered in, an opportunistic lawyer came along one day and took us for $4000 plus mandated updates, and compared to a lot of businesses we got off cheap.
     
    #281 nickfl, Oct 19, 2013
  2. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    can an opportunistic lawyer come in and sue me? Yes. Do I have to be ADA compliant from the jump? No. I confirmed this with 3 sseparate parties in 3 separate divisions.
     
    #282 OldWade, Oct 19, 2013
  3. Cboat

    Cboat Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2012 California

    Man that's such a bummer! This was an extremely enticing thread to follow and I was quite excited to catch up with it this morning! From experience in helping open a cafe (we were BYOB so very different problems) I certainly know how hard it is since the cafe didn't make it a full year (I was gone by then). Here's to hoping that something takes a turn for the better and you do successfully open up!
     
    #283 Cboat, Oct 21, 2013
  4. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    Hell, I feel like I have to open this for you guys!!! Seriously, I appreciate all the support. It gives me strength when I feel like throwing in the towel. I've gone back to the Planning and Zoning twice now. Initially I decided to see whether going through a zoning change would be worth it. Minimum 4 months and $1,500(while that seems plausible, keep in mind my low cost, zero budget approach). Initially I said no way. Towel thrown. Then this weekend I was at KY Kicks Ass Brewfest with my brother. He has been coming up with recipes like crazy lately in the advent that the bar gains traction and we can move forward with a tiny microbrew(read nanobrew, ha). After seeing his enthusiasm(he has been extremely hesitant to be involved) I feel like I'd be letting multiple people down if I didn't continue to fight for this tiny bar.

    I called back today to get more info. The zoning here is a unique zoning to the this neighborhood alone. Its called TNZD(Traditional Neighborhood Zoning). Basically if the place you have has been operating out of traditional zoning during the time this was implemented in 2002 you could keep that zoning. But if the business ceased to exist for more than a year, it reverted back to the TNZD overlay zone. Well my space was a tavern/cafe from 1950-1978. But since it hasn't existed during the time the TNZD was implemented, it reverts to its new zoning. Which is corner lot commercial. This is basically light commercial or C1. I need C2 to open my business. I could open as a restaurant. REad the earlier posts. But I think NC1 is correct in that this would be a mistake. So I am looking into a zoning change. I called Planning and Zoning again today and asked them to gauge my chances of getting a zone change. "Extremely unlikely". But talk to the Old Louisville Neighborhood Association. If you could get them on you side you may have a very small chance. So this is where I am now. I have to reach out to several of these Neighborhood Associations and see if I can garner any support before moving forward with the 4 month zone change process. Should be interesting.

    I feel like the cards are stacked against me in this current venue so I am trying to see if there is a place that could make it work without all these hoops. There is one place that is called the Neighborhood Center by the TNZD map. I could open a consumption only establishment here without any hoops. But it is a small area, rough area, and very little, to no leasing opportunities. Guys and gals...I'm trying. I'm trying.
     
    #284 OldWade, Oct 22, 2013
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  5. semaj

    semaj Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2013 Florida

    As much as we would all like to see this, none of us want to make you homeless in the process. I hope you can find an affordable fix to this snag!
     
    #285 semaj, Oct 22, 2013
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  6. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    Semaj,

    That's the only way I would do it. And that is what makes is so challenging.
     
    #286 OldWade, Oct 22, 2013
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  7. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    Would carry a lot of weight if you had the neighborhood behind you, and zoning changes do happen. But would doing something like this make you beholden to a Stepford-type situation?

    Hey you know what, you may not want us to (!) but I'd bet there are many here who would flood a county commissioner's inbox with rambling letters of support for you.
     
    #287 jmw, Oct 22, 2013
    OldWade likes this.
  8. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    In an interesting turn of events, I was able to engage the mayor on twitter last night and he has put me in touch with his business ombudsman and another development person. I was also able to get my local councilman inquiring about my idea. They all asked me to email full details and they would see what they could do to help. This led to our local "everything beer" website to invite me to do a podcast with them about the progress of the place. These guys put on our craft beer week. So it is frikkin' HUGE!!! Not trying to get my hopes up but I sent the emails and am anxiously waiting.
     
    #288 OldWade, Oct 29, 2013
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  9. L-Space_Traveler

    L-Space_Traveler Devotee (319) Jun 2, 2013 Colorado
    BA4LYFE Society

    Great to hear! Keep us posted.
     
    #289 L-Space_Traveler, Oct 29, 2013
  10. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    #290 jmw, Oct 31, 2013
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  11. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    define 51% Is that of sales, and like how do you know that in advance? Is a lawyer that deals in zoning a possibility?

    I hate to say this but My wife was in a zoning board in a Unnamed Town in Texas, and hey lets just say its all in WHO you know.
     
    #291 azorie, Oct 31, 2013
  12. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    500 sq feet, you can throw the orders out, lol
     
    #292 azorie, Oct 31, 2013
  13. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    I meet with city and planning officials this Friday.
     
    #293 OldWade, Nov 5, 2013
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  14. lowbit

    lowbit Initiate (0) Jul 24, 2013 Wisconsin

    Good luck, sir -- you've got a whole raft of people here rooting for you!
     
    #294 lowbit, Nov 6, 2013
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  15. WeaponTheyFear

    WeaponTheyFear Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2008 Connecticut

    I've been reading this since the beginning and as ridiculous as I thought all of this is, this is a true underdog story and I wish you all the best. My dream would definitely be to open a brewpub and I think it's awesome what you are trying to accomplish.
     
    #295 WeaponTheyFear, Nov 6, 2013
  16. Jsteez

    Jsteez Savant (1,233) Apr 28, 2012 Utah

    Agreed. Simple food, but tasty food will keep people around. I am always in search of a place that offers a simple menu with some great beer food: dark breads, meats, and cheese. There just aren't many around. Bars/pubs opt to have an extensive menu with "fancy" pub grub instead.
     
    #296 Jsteez, Nov 6, 2013
  17. audioserf

    audioserf Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Connecticut

    This has been a great read. Good luck. Keep working on this and I am sure you will get where you want to be.
     
    #297 audioserf, Nov 6, 2013
  18. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    This might have been said. But could you own a food truck and park it out back? then be called a food place first?
     
    #298 azorie, Nov 6, 2013
    OldWade likes this.
  19. eclosson22

    eclosson22 Initiate (0) Jan 15, 2011 Illinois

    Not sure how things are in your area, but as an architect near Chicago, I've seen many municipalities being very generous with variances in regards to craft beer bars and nano breweries. As long as you make sure you convey your focus on community and beer (not a club or bar where people go to get drunk) you may still have a shot at this. Gather as much community support as you can, petitions from local home brewers groups, tasting clubs, etc. I've also never seen a set minimum percentage of sales. This is something no business owner has control over, its like saying a retail store must sell at least 51% pants vs. shirts. I have seen taprooms required to serve some sort of food, but it is usually prepackaged heat and serve stuff, nothing fancy. I was recently in Indiana and a craft beer bar there only had ramen and hot dogs on their menu and both were $10. Also, allowing people to bring food in from nearby restaurants is another option I've seen at a number of beer only pubs. If you want to send me more info on the location you're looking at and the zoning, I'd gladly take a closer look to see if there is anything else that stands out. I don't think you should think of this as over yet...

    Also, I agree with you on the interior design you posted...your gut would probably be much better than those renderings!
     
    #299 eclosson22, Nov 6, 2013
  20. ipamonster

    ipamonster Devotee (337) Jun 18, 2013 Rhode Island

    There is a bar in Providence, RI that can't be much larger than 250 (bar room) with a patio and small kitchen. The focus on craft beers and food that pairs well (sliders, pork belly, poutin). One of the best things they do is allow food trucks to park right outside. People bring in the food from the food trucks and the trucks attract people that may not know about the bar. Works great and creates a cool atmosphere.
     
    #300 ipamonster, Nov 6, 2013
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