Steep Dark Grains separate from Mash?

Gordon Strong would smile on you. He recommends cold steeping grains overnight if you want to smooth them out. Usually when I'm doing a dark beer I like a little bite though.

I'd just measure the amount of water you use to steep and subtract that from the amount you expect to go in the boil. I'd add it in in the last few minutes of the boil just to sanitize it.

 

[quote="Jesse14, post: 1861136, member: 611295"I was contemplating adding in the Chocolate and Roasted at the end of the mash and just circulate on top of them when I lauter.[/quote]

Just an FYI if adding at end of mash (Or cold steeping; G.S. says double it for cold steep), you may need a lot more grain than you would for a traditional mash. I did this for a black IPA and ended up needing close to 3 lbs of midnight wheat at mash out (for 10 minute recirculation) to get the beer to go from red (1 lb midnight wheat for 10 minutes) to black (3 lbs midnight wheat, total, for 20 minutes).

 

How big of a batch? I did 8oz of Midnight wheat cold steeped over night and sparged to 1 qt, then boiled back down to 1 pint, added straight to the fermenter and racked the beer on top of it (just under 5 gallons). Came out black with ruby highlights.

 

I've heard of this practice before and my thought is: if your mash pH adjusted properly, it won't make a difference; i.e., the benefit of this method is mashing your base malts within an acceptable pH range then adding the dark (acidic) grains later to prevent the pH from getting out of whack, which can add an acerbic, harsh bitterness to the beer. But, since I've never tried it, I can't be sure. I do know that my stouts and porter used to suffer from this before I adjusted mash pH, and now they are far smoother.

 

I have been doing it for about 5 years or so. Works fine.

 

I know for some people this can be difficult to do. I just brewed an Imperial Stout on Saturday with 1# Chocolate Malt, 1/2# Kiln Coffee, 1/2# Crystal 75/85, 1/2# Crystal 135/165, and 1# Roast Barley. My water is so low in bicarbonate that were I to adjust for the entire bill I would have to use something like 4+ tsp of Pickling Lime to get to 5.2. I just left out the RB and added it before vorlauf for 30 mins (I overnight mash so I just stirred it in when I got up and let it rest another 30 mins). I adjusted for the pH of the mash w/o the RB.

 

I've done this twice now, but both times I only cold water extracted the roast barley (added to boil kettle w/ 10 minutes left) but mashed the chocolate malt I was using in the same grain bill. I found it to be a nice compromise. Definitely took the edge off, but kept some nice dark malt character. One of those times I did my cold water extraction in a 64oz Hill Farmstead Flip Top Growler and made the grist too thick. Was a nightmare recovering the liquid!!!!

 

I have done overnight cold steeping several times. I use the approach for getting darkness in styles where roastiness is minimized, such as dark Belgians and schawrzbier, and I have also cold steeped part of the dark grains (usually half) in styles where I want some bite, but not loads of it, such as stouts and porters. I put the grains in some treated water (no chloramines!) in a 2 quart pitcher. On brew day, I decant into a French press coffee makers and press out the solid residues. I add the resulting wort to the runnings.

 

Cold steep the day before, use more malt as the cold steeping is less efficient at extraction. I use RO water for this.

Get the main mash at the right pH. At the end of the mash, I add the liquid from the cold steep. Some add the liquid right to the boil kettle.

 

It was a 5 gallon BIAB batch (My bag is open, clamped to keggle walls with binder clips), with 1 lb added at mash out. After about 10 minutes of recirculating the wort was only barely red, so I ended up adding midnight wheat until it went black, which took about 3 lbs.

I've never cold steeped (thats why I just sugg. GS's number), but haven't really found a need to as I've never really had any big astringency or acridness in my stouts or BIPA/Cascadian Dark Ales, etc.).

 

Check me on this:

I initially was under the impression that separate steeping was useful primarily when using roasted grains with husks, because much of the sharpness you get from exposing the husks of these grains to higher temps. When using huskless grain, including Carafa Special and Briess Midnight Wheat, I have added them to the mash.

However, I now recognize that the huskless grains probably still lower mash pH. Does anyone know how the huskless roasted grains affect mash chem? I'm thinking that I might be better off putting them in the "steep separately" category for this reason.

 

In the absense of data, I would treat huskless roasted grains like husked roasted grains from a pH perspective. I'd be very surprised if they acted more like base grains or crystal malts pH-wise.

 

I'm drinking a schwarzbier now that I used this technique on, and I love the result. Cold-steeped 1# of carafa overnight in the fridge with a half gallon of water. I strained the liquid into the mash just before sparging. The beer is black as night with only subtle roast flavors and aromas. No astringency. I will use this method more often.

 

For those that are asking about the technique, references.

There was an article "Cold Steeping of Dark Grains" by Mary Anne Gruber of Briess in the Jan-Feb 2002 Zymurgy. You can view online if you are an AHA member.

There are several hits if you web search cold steeping. Gordon Strong has a very good discussion in his book.

 

Bringing this one back from the dead. I'm doing a cold extraction with roasted barley for a dark saison next weekend, and came across this thread. Apparently adding the extract early in the boil will result in a higher astringency. Adding in the last 10-15 min will give you a smoother flavor. Probably taking the middle ground here and adding around 30 since this is my first time doing a cold extraction. I can judge from there but has anyone noticed a difference in early boil additions vs late?

 

@drewbage heres something for the IGORs...

I have been curious if there is a noticeable difference between a beer with RB mashed with the grist, and with the RB tossed on top of the mash during vourlauf.

 

And a third option is the one that I do when I homebrew my Robust Porters: I steep the dark specialty grains separate from the mash. I add the steeped liquid to the mashed wort and then boil away.

I have not noted astringency in the finished beer using this process. In all fairness I have not tried making my Robust Porters solely by mashing the grains so I really don't know if astringency would result via this method.

Cheers!

 

I put my roasted grain in a nylon paint strainer and let it steep in my brew kettle as I sparge. Works well for me.