Stepping Up Starters - WHILE USING A STIR PLATE

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by koopa, Apr 23, 2013.

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  1. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    OK so I decanted my 5L flask today down to just about only the yeast slurry, added 600ml of sterilized water to it, and filled 2x 16oz mason jars completely. So that means I have cultured and collected about 400ml of fairly thin slurry at an estimated 1.5 billion cells per ml for a total of 600 billion cells. My 11 gallon batch of beer I'm going to brew in 2 weeks calls for about 600 billion cells and I'm sure that I will have a bit less by that time. But since Conan apparently strives flavor wise when underpitched I'm going to brew that batch in 2 weeks and pitch the yeast slurry I've collected without doing another starter first. That should hopefully put about 250 billion cells into each 6.5 gallon carboy.
     
    #41 koopa, May 4, 2013
  2. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    From your description this looks like it will be a great beer. Plus update the forum when you get some results.
     
    #42 PortLargo, May 4, 2013
  3. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Thanks. The conan yeast will be going into a Mosaic, Simcoe, Centennial, Galaxy IPA that I will be serving at the National Homebrewing Conference Club Night in Philadelphia this June.
     
    #43 koopa, May 4, 2013
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  4. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Just looked at the mason jars after crash cooling them for a few days and I think I might only have about 150ml of yeast slurry in each one. Unless it's more dense than I am giving it credit for in a "cells per ml" sense.. I will do a 3L starter and pitch both of them into it a couple of days before I brew the batch of beer with it. A day on the stir plate, a day in the refrigerator, decant on brew day and pitch when the slurry has reached the proper temperature. Should be enough yeast to ensure a proper fermentation of 11 gallons @ 1.067 OG after this final feeding. If it turns out I was wrong, this last feeding was unnecessary, and I just overpitched then I probably just won't get the best ester intensity possible in this batch. Thats a better consequence than underpitching.
     
    #44 koopa, May 7, 2013
  5. afrokaze

    afrokaze Pooh-Bah (1,962) Jun 12, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hard to say exactly how much, but Kimmich has said that Conan never really floccs all the way out so you probably have a decent amount in suspension still. But more healthy yeast can't really hurt.
     
    #45 afrokaze, May 7, 2013
  6. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    One of those jars is sufficent for your entire 11 gallon batch, provided the yeast has really packed down. It probably has after a few days.

    You have a ton of yeast. I would just use one of those jars for your upcoming batch and I do not think you will gain anything by growing it further.

    If you want on brewday you can collect a liter or so and quickly boil and cool it in the flask. Then add the yeast and put it on the stirplate. Come pitching time they will be wide awake.
     
    #46 NiceFly, May 7, 2013
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  7. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    I can vouch for the poor flocculation. I cold crashed the fermentors, and have kept my conditioned bottles still and cold since they were ready, and there is still a thick haze. Same was true of my original starters for both batches. Really low flocculating yeast. I also vote for plenty healthy cells still in suspension.
     
    #47 cavedave, May 7, 2013
  8. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Well based on the calculations I did with the yeast calculator tool linked in the beginning of this thread, each jar should have about 311 billion cells in it (assuming I didn't lose any yeast while decanting, which is not likely considering the comments about conan not flocculating well) and my recipe calls for 511 billion cells. So in that sense (and up until yesterday when I viewed the yeast) I feel that pitching both mason jars (1 per carboy) without an additional starter when I brew in 2 weeks should be perfect as some viability will be lost over the course of 2 weeks.

    According to Mr. Malty, I need 183ml of "thick slurry" to ferment the entire 11 gallon batch. If my slurry really is "thick" then the fact that its 150ml worth of slurry per jar would probably mean it would be a slight underpitch to ferment the entire batch with 1 jar w/o doing another starter. But underpitching is supposedly the thing to do with slurry so you might be dead right.
     
    #48 koopa, May 7, 2013
  9. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    I do not know much about those online calculators but here is how I did my calculations.

    I assumed 4.5 billion cells/ml of thick slurry. If it has been washed and sitting for a few days this is pretty close.

    Plato x ml of wort x pitching rate of 750,000 cells/ml/plato =

    16.75 x 44000 x 750,000 = 5.53^11 cells

    5.53^11 cells / 4.5 billion cells per ml =123 ml of slurry

    A pitching rate of 1million/ml/plato = 164 ml of slurry

    Either way 150 ml is close enough for guberment work. This is just how I do it, proceed any way you like.
     
    #49 NiceFly, May 8, 2013
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