So I made a 1.6 liter starter with a wyeast ESB smack pack that I currently have on a stir plate. I am planning on brewing a big barleywine this weekend (1.135ish). MrMalty says I need 485 billion yeast cells to pitch (Beersmith says 435). It also says that my yeast packet that was manufactured on 11/14 will only give me about 51% viability. I plan to decant and pitch 2 liters of fresh 1.040 wort tomorrow. My question to you yeast experts is this... any guess how many yeast cells that would get me? I am trying to determine if I should go for a 3rd step (I'm limited with a 2 liter flask). So I have 2 questions: 1. Does a two month old packet really cut the viability in half? 2. After I have stepped up to 2 liters, would an additional round of decanting then adding 2L of fresh wort increase my cell count or will I be maxed out? Any comments, advice, or info will be greatly appreciated! This will be my biggest beer I have made and I want to do it right!
Good news. I can help you. Bad news, after you read what I'm saying you'll think that I'm on crack. a) don't worry about the 435 vs 485. Those numbers are less of an error than what the actual cell count the package that you bought will be. b) good news. This isn't August. Both WL and Wyeast make super yeast. What you get are cells that are in uber shape So here what you should do. Go get a gallon plastic distilled water thing. Pitch the water and sanitize it. Fill it with as much 1.035 wort that you feel comfortable with. Lets say 3.2 liters. crash the starer that you have and pour out most of what is left. Then put on your rubber gloves, take your spay bottle of sanitizer and spray the room, make sure the forced air furnace isn't blowing back your hair and throw the yeast into the gal jug. Spray some tin foil and put it on the screw top. Actually this is a bit important. The top on these containers don't have many threads. you will unscrew it and it might come loose. The foil will give you a piece of mind. I have done this before and it does work. You needs to shake it , loosen the top , squeeze out some CO2 and let some oxygen in. If you do this you should get 476 bil cells. While I think that count to be a minimum, it will work. The other thing is how do you add oxygen in to your wort?
Thanks for the response. I typically agitate the carboy and introduce oxygen via autosiphon. I should have an oxygenator (from Northern Brewer) coming before brew day. So what is the advantage of using the jug? Just getting more volume? I would like to stick with the 2L flask and stir plate if possible, but if that simply isn't enough volume to grow my yeast to the proper count, then I will consider this method.
If you decant and do a stir plate w/1.7 L - the math says that you'll get more cells than my suggestion - but- you're inoculation rate is a bit high. Too many cells per volume of wort. When it's high you typically grow less yeast and I don't think that the calculators take that into account. So it's probably a wash. Again after listing to a presentation from WL I've come to realize that the yeast that we get from the vials is very healthy. The on-line calculators are for re-pitching and I wonder if we do more harm than good with too many step-ups (with new yeast). I've heard even from a person that has made one calculator that you can go 75% less. But you have a high gravity beer and I've read that you need to go 1.4x. Ugh. Really, no advantage with the jug. Just an easy way to get a bigger pitch. I ask about how you introduce oxygen because with a high gravity wort you need to add more oxygen in. If you add pure oxygen then it's best to add twice. Once before you pitch and then about 8-12 hours later. What you do is add the amount that you would for a regular beer twice. Or you could add sterile ambient air in. You can basically keep adding it in. Between you and me I once aerated (ambient air) the wort and then took a racking cane that went into the head space only and fed it continuously with sterile air. That helped to keep the wort at 8 ppm. The oxygen intake is cumulative. A big beer never has to be over 8 ppm which is non-oxygen introduced saturation. Actually someone that makes very good beer oxygenates all of his beer twice. He just scales the amounts to what is needed. And maybe someday I'll admit that I've played w/stir-plates during primary fermentation, but not yet.
After doing my first starter with a stir plate, this same idea came to mind. Seems like you'd have to use a pretty small primary or somehow find an enormous stir plate. Thanks for your input. I'm going to stick with stepping up my starter and using the stir plate this time around. If it gets me in the ballpark of 400+ I will be satisfied. I will keep the jug method in mind for future brews.
