Hello, all. Been quite some time since I browsed these forums and sadly I just don't brew as much as I used to, but was hoping to get some opinions on repitch rates for this beer... Big Braggot @ ~1.110 after two honey additions (during primary) Stuck at 1.030 My first time repitching for stuck fermentation. Wondering what cell count I should actually be aiming for to try to finish this up. Do I base it on the sugar that may be left, 1.030 or go higher? Wyeast 3711 for repitch ------ Additional Details - 11 gallon batch Mash 150F - 22# Pale, 1# Biscuit, 4# Turbinado, 4oz Acidulated Post boil - 1.071 (pre honey) WLP530 yeast starter for estimated 1.073 Oct 19 - Pitched and held at 68 for three days Oct 22 - 6 lbs honey Oct 24 - 6 lbs honey Oct 27-Nov 5 - Raised temp a couple degrees per day to 75 Nov 25 - 1.008 Dec 10 - gravity actually was higher (something like 1.010-12), so I assumed it was my own miscalculation and did a cold crash as planned Jan 4 - reading is at 1.030 and I am like whaaaa? At first I thought maybe the early readings were incorrect because the honey did not mix well yet and that the later 1.030 reading was after fermentation got stuck and everything was more homogenized. However, last night I gave it a stir to add some yeast energizer and found that there was literally unfermented honey on the spoon. So now I am thinking maybe the yeast crapped out and there is a layer of honey sitting at the bottom, which could also be throwing off my readings if pulled into the sample port. Thinking maybe I should also try to take a sample from the top. Obviously there is still sugars to be converted in there, as the spoon shows, so might as well repitch regardless. Brewed it twice in the past with same procedure and it finished at 1.006 and then 1.003 respectively. I'll be happy if this thing can get down to 1.010 to be honest.
Looks like the honey additions just went straight to the bottom of the fermenter and settled there. That's going to be hard for the yeast to get at. Not sure how to get it more evenly distributed without oxidizing it. Perhaps when you did this in the past the yeast was active enough to mix it in, or maybe the honey was warmer and more likely to mix in at time of addition. .080 reduction in gravity is pushing it for most yeast. You're looking at something that's around 10-11% abv now. Even an active starter of the beast that is 3711 is going to have a hard time in that environment. Maybe make a an active starter of 3711, your choice of Brett, and some sherry flor?
Thanks. Yeah - definitely thinking of better ways to add the honey next time around (as well as additional nutrients and o2 during active ferm as the honey goes in). Quite a volatile environment, yeah. I used Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong and Omega Belgian Ale A in the past batches. LHBS only had WLP530 this time around. 1388 with its lower flocculation and slightly higher abv tolerance was probably ideal. I do plan to toss the 3711 in at high krausen, so maybe we'll see what that yields. Thinking to overbuild a starter based on the last reading, but of course if that honey is sitting at the bottom and being pulled into the sampling port, that reading could be off anyway. Suppose I can also give it another gentle stir with a spoon at that time. One other option could be to just dump the trub so I'm not transferring it over to kegs and see how this 10-11% shapes up.
Given the high ABV that your braggot is right now, have you considered just pitching some dry wine yeast (e.g., champagne yeast) to finish the job? With dry yeast you get a high cell count with minimal fuss. I once brewed a Quad which wouldn't carbonate in the bottle and I added some wine yeast (rehydrated so I could add using a syringe) to each bottle and those beers carbonated just fine. Cheers!
Thanks, Jack. I did see some mention of that as a possible solution in my googling as well. Definitely a consideration. Would be good for any leftover simple sugars, which I know are in there thanks to the spoon, lol. At first I was like, why is this beer so syrupy as it dripped off the spoon, then it dawned on me... and I took a lick, pure honey.
You'll need a very big pitch of yeast. And even then, it might not be successful. The ABV is already quite high, which does not make newly introduced yeast very happy. You will certainly need patience. Plan on the fermentation taking at least a couple more months after pitching the new yeast. And like I said, who knows if it will work. But if it does, it will be SLOOOOOOW.
Appreciate the answers. Here is a quick update: 1/10 - Repitched with 3711 @68 Target was based on the remaining gravity from the last reading - 1.030 Slightly overbuilt Seems I missed high krausen but the starter was still active Made it the night before assuming I could pitch it somewhere after the 12 hour mark the next day, but the krausen ring seemed to indicate I had missed that window Gave the trub layer a gentle stirring before pitch Used some Fermaid O to account for what may be nutrient deficient environment and honey Visible activity that same day Following day, raised the temp up to 70 1/12 - Steady Activity, raised temp to 72 Couple days later and I'm still seeing activity - its not vigorous, but is steady As mentioned before, I am not certain that it was actually stuck at 1.030 and could be lower if properly mixed. Seems plausible that the layer of honey I observed during the first stir had settled below the sample port and was throwing off readings. Makes me wonder if the unfermented honey was actually causing some stratification towards the bottom where we have a higher gravity solution down there, but lower as you go up? I'm feeling optimistic at the moment. Will report back after I actually take a reading.
Reporting back. The beast seems to have done the trick. The 3711 repitch actually picked up more vigorously since my last post and stayed active until only a couple days ago. Seems to have mostly subsided now. Looks like we are down to 1.005!
First off, well done at getting this to dry out. Couple questions, though. Was this your first braggot? What type of honey did you use? Brewed a lot of braggots in my day and if you want to make more, let me be so bold as to suggest a couple things: 1) Add all your honey at high krausen. Many will tell you that osmotic shock will be an issue, but it is when your yeast are most capable of handling a big sugar infusion. 2) As long as you have a highly alcohol tolerant yeast strain your beer will dry out without adding a diastaticus strain. It will just take a little while to do so. I'd conservatively give it three months in a secondary fermenter to be sure.
This was only my third time brewing a braggot (basically the same recipe) I used blueberry honey from a local provider (a nod to the Flying Fish Braggot that inspired me to try brewing one... I don't actually add any blueberry though) I added the honey in two stages, about three days after pitching when it started to slow, and then again two days after that. Sounds like I could try adding it sooner. I also feel like the honey just drops right to the bottom and wonder if there is a better method for adding. The FG being near target at first and then shooting back up definitely threw me. It was brewed late Nov, seemed on track mid Dec, and then was way off again by early Jan when I was ready to get it into kegs. So there was a decent amount of time given. Point taken on the diastaticus strain... I did start with just remixing the honey that settled in the trub to see if that restarted the primary pitch, but it didn't seem to. Maybe a high krausen repitch of the original yeast would have done the trick, but I decided to call in the heavy hitter to finish the job. Appreciate the insight!
Yeah, it'll just stay at the bottom until the yeast get around to it. Don't worry, they will. It just takes a solid couple months for them to do so.
