Sugar and extract beer

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by corbmoster, Aug 11, 2016.

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  1. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    I while back before my home brewing hiatus, I think I remember someone saying that it is a suggested practice to replace a pound of extract for sugar if brewing an extract beer? Does that sound about right? And what was the reason behind it?
     
  2. Buck89

    Buck89 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,782) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'm guessing that this is just to create a more fermentable wort for a drier beer, like for a big IPA or a Belgian. Some use it to boost their ABV above that expected from their grain bill.
     
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  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Not necessarily "suggested." More like do it if you need it. As Buck89 suggests, you might need it when you expect to have difficulty getting your beer to attenuate to the desired final gravity. So you substitute some simple sugar for some of the extract that constitutes the original gravity.
    Caveats::

    1. The fermentability of different brands of extracts may vary. It's possible you might want this trick with some extracts but not need it with others. About a dozen years ago, there was an extract marketed as Laglander (I think), reputed to me much less fermentable than Muntons or Briess. This is one where you would pull out this trick, possibly even for lower gravity beers. I do not know much about extracts today except that some may publish some information in spec sheets about expected fermentability. If you had that info, you could probably use it to predict when you might want to add sugar. Otherwise, more trial and error.

    2.If you are producing under-attenuated beer, there may be something else you should be focusing on -- yeast health. Use a pitching calculator to make sure you are pitching a sufficient dose of healthy yeast. Make sure you are oxygenating well. Do everything within your power to bring the best players to the game.

    3. If you are producing under-attenuated beer, patience may also be key.

    A good example of 2 and 3 might be found in people's experiences with the classic Saison Dupont yeasts (WY3724 and WL565). The yeast has a reputation for underattenuating, so people will often try to make the most fermentable wort they can -- mashing extra low if they are brewing all-grain, and/or swapping some malt extract or grain from their grist with sugar. Also, the try raising the temp to keep the yeast more active. None of this is bad practices or out of style for a saison -- but is it truly necessary? One of the forum users, @Homebrew42 (if he is still around -- doesn't stop by much anymore) pointed out that he gets good attenuation with the strain simply by paying attention to yeast health and giving it a full month to attenuate. He didn't need highfermentation temps, extremely low mash temps, or sugar swaps. I tried it, and I believe others did too, and also found that care and patience worked great.
     
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  4. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Fortunately, I have not had a problem hitting final gravities. Sometimes my beers do seem to have more body than I would like though. My last two beers, a wheat and a blonde seemed a little to malty for the style.
     
  5. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    A lot of extract stout brewers would love to have your problem (too much body)
    Try adjusting your recipe (less/no specialty grains) if maltiness/body seem high, imho
     
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  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    @corbmoster, what brand(s) of malt extract are producing beers that are "too malty" for you?

    Cheers!
     
  7. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    When subbing sugar for some extract you have to remember that sugar has no 'beer' flavor, so you are giving up something that normally is considered to be desirable.
     
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  8. LuskusDelph

    LuskusDelph Initiate (0) May 1, 2008 New Jersey

    Sometimes.
     
  9. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Ok should say very malty and darker. After listening to some podcasts at work; I think my issue is caramelizing the extract during the boil. I thought I would not have the problem so much with full boil extracts in 6.25 gallons of water. But I guess I can try doing a full boil with half the malt extract, and adding the rest towards the end. It just seemed like this blonde ale I brewed was not very light at all and definitely darker than it should be. I'll post the recipe later when I get the chance. And a pic. I'll see how this creme ale turns out. Of it is too dark also, I bet that is my problem. As far as what brands: I've used all brands, liquid and dry.
     
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Extract beers are typically darker than all grain equivalents. It's a property of extract. Late additions will help somewhat. Also, back off the heat before adding the extract and make sure it's completely dissolved before returning the wort to a boil.
     
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  11. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Extract descriptors are sometimes vague...light, amber, extra light, etc.
    If I wanted something light colored, I would use only extra light, pilsner, or wheat DME.
    LME tends to scorch if not mixed well. Try pulling some hot wort and gradually mixing any LME in a large pyrex measuring cup and for a little extra insurance buy a kettle with some aluminum in the bottom as a minimum. Late additions will also help.
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Again, what exact extract brand and form are you using? For example, are you using Briess Pilsen DME to brew this beer? Which brand/type and form matters too.

    Cheers!
     
  13. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Again, many brands and types. My last two were unknown brands of liquid. I'm not sure what brand of LME my LHBS, or Austin HBS use. Currently fermenting creme ale is mallard golden LME I believe.
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If you are looking for the ultimate in lightness I very strongly recommend Briess Pilsen malt extract and make sure you get the dried malt extract.

    http://www.midwestsupplies.com/briess-dried-malt-extract-pilsen

    Cheers!
     
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