Super slow lager yeast

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by shirsch, Jul 24, 2012.

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  1. shirsch

    shirsch Devotee (320) Dec 14, 2007 South Carolina
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    I am brewing adopplebock with wyeast Munich 2 lager yeast. I pitched a large slurry, a half quart, from a previous octoberfest. There was an active growth phase as evidenced by the yeast ring around the surface of the primary. The OG was 1.086 and it is now at 1.061 after 12 days. The previous octoberfest took 15 days to reach its FG, but this dopplebock is going much slower. Aerated with 90 seconds of pure O2. The temp has been held steady at 52. I can't understand why it is going so slow. Any ideas?

    Also, I am thinking about rep itching an active 1056 starter I was planning on using in another batch. Not sure what the final product would turn out like.
     
  2. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    What was the previous Octoberfest OG?, if it was a very high OG maybe yeast is a bit stressed due high alcohol content...just thinking.I would suggest you to give it a shake and rise temp a bit to see what happen.
     
  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    W-a-y too soon to think about re-pitching, let alone an ale yeast. My advice is to let it ride another week and see where it's at.
     
  4. shirsch

    shirsch Devotee (320) Dec 14, 2007 South Carolina
    Trader

    Why do you think it is way too soon? What's the longest you have seen a beer comparable to this take to reach fG? I may start preparing a lager starter.
     
  5. shirsch

    shirsch Devotee (320) Dec 14, 2007 South Carolina
    Trader

    The octoberfest went from 1.060 to 1.020. It was a bigger than normal octoberfest that turned out great.
     
  6. MMAJYK

    MMAJYK Initiate (0) Jun 26, 2007 Georgia

    How old was the slurry?
     
  7. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    That is too slow for a lager, even a Doppelbock. My last 1.084 Doppelbock was done with the D-rest and at FG in 8 days.
     
  8. shirsch

    shirsch Devotee (320) Dec 14, 2007 South Carolina
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    The slurry was fairly clean and healthy. It was only 2 days removed from primary.
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    But what would you do about it at this point? I'd ride it out.
     
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I think as long as the gravity is still moving, I would not re-pitch. I have known of even lower gravity lagers (1.055-ish) taking this long. (Not mine, but I will say that mine never seem to be quite as fast as hopfenunmalz's either, who has the whole lager fermentation schedule wired.)
     
  11. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I would check the gravity in a few days, and if not moving much, pitch a new starter slurry.
     
  12. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    Just curious, why do you say healthy and two days old? Why I ask is if I make a big beer and let it sit and condition for three weeks after primary, rack the beer and put the slurry in the refrigerator for two days, I wouldn't call the yeast two days old and healthy. If I was confident on the cell count I'd add in some non-aerated wort to let the yeast get healthy again.

    My scenario is of course just for demonstration purposes, but the size of the slurry seems to be good and you aerated, yeast health seems to be the only thing in question.
     
  13. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I would consider notching the temp up a couple degrees. A couple times I've had lagers that seem stalled at the low end of the temp range that revive at the high end of the range. I'd gradually notch the temp up. I'd probably try 54 for a few days, then 56 for a few days, then maybe even 58 for a few days. If that doesn't get results, maybe pitch an ale yeast, but pitch one that is already active (make a starter). If that is your recourse, try to keep the temps close to lagering range, using something that gives good results at low temperatures, such as an alt, Chico, or Nottingham strain. That way if the lager yeast wakes up, they won't be too outside their recommended range.
    Good luck.
     
    premierpro likes this.
  14. shirsch

    shirsch Devotee (320) Dec 14, 2007 South Carolina
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    What about reaerating to pormote more yeast growth? Has too much fermentation taken place at 1.061 that I would get oxidation from adding pure O2? I don't like this idea, but would like some other opinions.
     
  15. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    From any presentation that I've heard, you should never re-aerate at this point. For one thing, and I don't recommend this - but I've been told that you don't have to aerate. Evidently you can add the yeast to fresh wort and let it sit on a stir-plate for about fours hours. But the window of time to be on the stir plate is hard to determine and going to short or too long will have negative effects.

    But I don't see why re-aerating would help. I don't think that it's a cell count issues, it's cell health. If you want to re-pitch you only need to pitch active healthy yeast.
     
  16. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Maybe stir gently to rouse yeast, but I have similar reservations about adding oxygen.
     
  17. cracker

    cracker Pundit (893) May 2, 2004 Pennsylvania

    You likely did not have enough active healthy yeast. I had a similar issue last year. I made a Dortunder that went from 1.052 to 1.012 which was perfectly fine. Then I took all that slurry and pitched it into a strong bock (1.060 and I could only get it down to 1.022 after 5 weeks in primary). I was hoping for at least 1.018.

    What I would do, as mentioned above, is slowly raise the temp to the mid to upper 50's over a period of several days. This may help get the yeast started up again. You are likely out of the danger zone for generation of much esters as that happens early on in primary fermentation.
     
  18. shirsch

    shirsch Devotee (320) Dec 14, 2007 South Carolina
    Trader

    THanks for all of the feedback. I am going to create a starter, decant, and pitch the yeast.
     
  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I had to chuckle about this one. The closest anyone came to recommending pitching more yeast was "I would check the gravity in a few days, and if not moving much, pitch a new starter slurry." I added the italics for emphasis, but I think hopfenunmalz was right on. Of course, it's your beer, so you should do what you want.
     
  20. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    If it does not move down much more, send in fresh reinforcements.
     
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