Supplication and Consecration Clones

I brewed a soured belgian dark with cherries, raspberries, blackberries and blueberries. (the frozen fancy berry medley from trader joes) So, it is a consecration inspired beer.

The other sour I brewed was a supplication clone. A sour brown with cherries.

Both of the beers turned out pretty good. Nice brett characteristics and very sour. I have been into competitions lately and haven't found the right category to enter these beers in. I have entered the soured BDS into the belgian specialty category, but some of the comments I received suggested I try another category, a sour beer category. I entered the supplication clone in the fruit beer category and I got similar comments.

So, my question is.....

What categories should I enter these beers into?

 

Yeah, I agree with you barfdiggs. I think I need to try cat 23 and be very detailed on my process and fermentation. Or maybe keep on trying in the belgian speciality category and be more detailed about process.

Also, the more times I enter sour beers into competition, and read the comments I get. The more I realize that the only the only comerical representations the judges have had is lindemans. Which I feel is hardly a good example of a fruit lambic.

 

As for a recipes goes.... Ill type them up and post them here in a couple of hours.

 

I agree. However, when the comments I receive say my sour beer is too sour and to much tannins. They suggest I use fruits with less seeds. The beer was Cherry/Raspberry Lambic, with about a 80/20 blend of the fruits. I have given this sour beer to few beer geeks and other beer people and the sourness is comparable to a Cantillon. However I personally was disappointed with the tannin level in my beer, I thought it could use more, The Kriek or Rose de Gam from Cantillon has more tannins then my beer. So hence my suspicion that the fruit lambic they have had is lindemans. Also, in the fruit beer category under commerical examples, lindemans is not listed. Lindemans beer are actually listed under the Belgian Speciality Category. OK, end of rant. I feel better.....

And let me end with, I totally respect the judges opinion. The other beers I entered, six others, all received fair comments. I appreciate what they do for beer and judging and volunteering for these events. My bitching is not validated because I am not a BJCP judge. I'm not trying to demean judges or judging. Just a little pissed my precious lambic didn't do better.... So yeah......

 

Consecration Clone:
10 gallon extract batch with specialty grains

OG: 1.101
FG: 1.010
ABV: 12.3%
IBU: 27

Fermentables:
22.00 lbs Light Liquid Malt Extract
3.00 lbs Dark Candi Syrup
1.00 lbs Belgian Special B
1.00 lbs Caramel 60L
1.00 lbs Wheat Malt
0.50 lbs CaraMunich I

Hops:
Super Styrian, 7.0% AA, 27 IBU

Yeast:
WLP530- Abbey Ale
After primary ferment was completed, about two weeks. The beer was racked to new 5 gallon carboy, then WLP655- Belgian Sour Mix I and Wyeast 3763 Roselare Belgian Blend was pitched. The beer fermented for 12 months. I then racked it to a 6 gallon better bottle carboy and added the frozen fruit. At a rate of 2 pounds per gallon, I used the frozen berry medley from Trader Joes. This then sat for another 12 months. I then racked to bottling bucket, added priming sugar and Champaign yeast. It carbonated in two weeks and I began drinking this delicious beer.

Why I did what I did. I remember listening to a Brewing Network episode were Vinnie was on and he was talking about his Belgian beers. He said that he likes to use Super Styrian Hops for his Belgian beer and said that’s what he uses in Salvation. Consecration is a soured version of this beer. Vinnie also mentioned that Salvation gets most of its color from the Belgian candi sugar, hence the lack of specialty grains to give the beer more color. Also, for my sours I like to use extract, even though I'm an All Grain brewer because I feel extract leaves some good unfermentables behind for the wild yeast to eat.

 

Supplication Clone
5 gallon All Grain Batch

OG: 1.056
FG: 1.006
ABV: 5.2%
IBU: 17

Fermentables:
5.25 lbs Belgian Pilsner Malt
5.25 lbs Belgian Vienna Malt
1.00 lbs Belgian Munich Malt
0.75 lbs Belgian Special B
0.75 lbs Belgian Caramel Munich Malt 60L
0.50 lbs Wheat Malt
0.50 lbs Belgian Aromatic Malt
0.20 lbs Black Malt

Hops:
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings 5.5%AA at 17IBU

Yeast:
WLP655- Belgian Sour Mix I
Wyeast 3763 Roselare Belgian Blend

The wort went into a 6.5 glass carboy and it fermented for 8 months. At the 8 month mark I added 10 lbs of sour pie cherries from Oregon to the carboy. The beer fermented for another 6 months and then I bottled it. Bottled it with priming sugar and Champaign yeast.

 

I totally agree with you and it is not a dumb question. I thought about it a lot as well. I agree with your thoughts on dialing in the grain bill to get the wort right where you want it. But like you said, how much of the grain bill actually comes out in the finished beer? So even if you send all this time doing a triple step infusion mash,and making the perfect wort. I don't think it matters because the bugs really make the beer.

I have made sours using extract and and all grain techniques, personally I haven't noticed a difference. With using extract, the sour fermentation and the length of time really make the beer. And that you can't even notice or tell it was made with extract. I use extract for most of my sours and they have all turned out really good. I think the biggest plus to using extract is the time you save. I have bottled six different batches of sour beer and only two of them were all grain. So I say do it! Use the extract! The 9 other batches of sour beer fermenting at the moment, I used extract for all of them.

 

With the two sour beers I made all grain, I did a higher mash temp 155F. Should provide some longer chain dextrins for the wild yeast to ferment. From the reading I conducted, I philosophy for making wort for sour beer is to make a wort suitable for long aging with wild yeast by providing lots of food for them. I like to use unmalted grains like flaked wheat or barley and oatmeal. These grains provide food in the form of starches for the wild yeast to eat over their long journey.

 

I have not tried a traditional turbid mash. Spending 8-10 hours on a mash does not sound like fun to me. Especially when I make my extract sours from start to finish in less then two hours. One of the reasons why these breweries still do this style of mash is merely out of tradition. The turbid mash is like 50/50 pilsner malt and unmalted wheat and is a super thick mash. The turbid mash process is used to crack and break down the long chain starches to smaller dextrins, it is almost a mechanical process and not a enzymatic one. This style of mash was used to evade taxes and deal with lack of ingredients.

As far as my extract lambic style beers go, you got it. Wheat malt extract with speciality grains like oats and flaked wheat or maltodextrin as you put it.