T20 vs T25 - I need some facts.

How do you know these kind people were sending you bottles at cost if you don't know what the bottles cost?

 

You seem to be aware that this is how most behind the scenes trades / regular trading partners work. So why are you complaining? Of course it'll be worse on the open market. It always is.

T25 = $25 at the brewery, $30 at the Toronado. No idea on bottle count, and I don't think it matters these days.

 

The open market, a.k.a. ISO:FT. Where you go to attempt trades that even your regular trading partners won't do with you.

 

So you're saying it's an underground sexual movement that caters to the kinky and disturbed?

 

The big issue is that people are assuming that T25 is just as rare 4-5 days removed from the release as T20 is 5 years later.

 

because they're 2012 join dates.

assuming you're defining rarity as "low bottle count," i think that demonstrably does not matter anymore: see cbs, bcbcs, bcbvs, rare, king henry, bramble......

at this point demand seems to be the determinant of value. demand can be >> supply when you consider the 17k bottle count beers above. so the question is, is demand >> supply for t25?

 

I think some people are acting like it's rarer. At least T-25 tastes pretty good...

OP, the T-20 bottlecount/cost information is basically irrelevant to its trade value. As for the T-25 bottlecount from Toronado, no one actually knows. The went through a good number of cases, at least a few dozen. I'd guess around 600 released, but that could be pretty wildly off. (I realize I said "about the same as RR" in an earlier thread, but thinking about the logistics of the release at Toronado that seems high. Not out of the realm of possibility, but high.)

 

You should read the review of Arbitrator for T-25 and think again

 

Arbitrator hates all beer.

 

Something like that. No one knows for sure, other than the RR figure.

 

I just looked at the reviews for this and I'd easily trust Arbitrator's review over the other 8. The only time I don't trust his reviews is when he's devaluing my JO's . That alone took me out of the pool who are ISO, but I'd still like to nab one for a trading partner.

 

The part that makes me question his palate is the notion that it's simple relative to other sours. Especially given how many flavor notes he called out, it's obviously a complex beer. You're free to not be a fan, but it has a lot going on, especially once it warms up a bit.

 

In fairness, you're also the guy that has been playing up the rarity factor of this beer for the past 3 weeks, so maybe we're coming from different motivations. (On a related note, Arne's post on the matter literally made me snort coffee out my nose.)

It's possible 3.18 is too harsh, but I spoke to a number of people (unfortunately non-reviewers) who commented that T25 isn't as good as RR's regular lineup. If you feel otherwise, more power to you -- upload a review. My palate definitely doesn't align with most.

Don't you fucking speak ill of the wig. This thing got me service at the Toronado.

 

I don't trust his reviews either because he devalue 11 bottles of T-25 that Chussain got for me.

 

Still better then the average sour.

 

I'd say it's worse than Beatification, and probably temptation. On par at least with the others. I actually like it once it warms up, thought it was awful cold. No clue what the deal with that is. (At the deconstruction dinner the plurality component, which tasted like pineapple juice, did the same thing but more extremely. I hated it cold, and thought it was pretty good warm. I think it might have been pineapple Stockholm syndrome.)

 

I've started my review of this beer 3 times now and have been too lazy to finish. I imagine it will end up in the 4.2 to 4.4 range. I think it is actually a pretty good beer, but not world class. I thought Arbitrator's review was a bit harsh, as I think it's quite a bit better than merely average, but hey, to each there own. It's still a little young, but it did remind me of T20 from a few years ago, although it has a much brighter fruit characteristic. I imagine it will hit its groove in the next 1-3 years.

I will say it is drinking a shit ton better than T20 right now, at least the stuff that they had on at the party. It was actually just kind of bad. I had it out of a bottle about 2 months ago, and while better, it's not a "whale" that would ever get my attention again.

I'm guessing somewhere between 2000-3000 bottles total, given what there seemed to be at Toronado plus what was released at Russian River. 2400 (half at each location, and what is that, 10 barrels?) doesn't seem unreasonable.