Tanal A from wyeast

I suppose there is a use for this. But, there are so many ways you can get haze in your beer by just brewing normally and not filtering what you do, that this is almost ridiculous to consider.

 

This may be something they just supply. I think it is produced by another company. Like this product, which comes from a Japanese company. It may be available (Brewtan B) this summer to homebrewers. Note the current sizes.

https://wyeastlab.com/brewtan

 

Why is there such a push for putting unnecessary chemicals into beer all of a sudden? There are ways to brew both hazy and clear beers through proper brewing techniques. Has it really come to this?

 

This is where you would advocate for the product, sorry if my comment makes you want to take your toys and go home.
I don't like using short cuts for short cuts sake, especially when it involves chemicals I am unfamiliar with.

 

Given that this product is sold in commercial quantities (smallest being 1 lb.) it may be that no homebrewers have used it?

Do you know any commercial brewers that you can discuss this with?

Maybe there is some discussion for this product on http://discussions.probrewer.com/forumdisplay.php?29-ProBrewer-Message-Board

Cheers!

 

NEIPA's are using the proteins from the oats and wheats for the haze primarily. The haze, or milkshake look is a few things, and there's some emerging science involved around why it occurs. And it's not all about having yeast in suspension, which is a different beast entirely and not always a good thing to have a boatload of pulling through.
There are some pretty interesting articles around the intermadoodle that talk about how different strains respond wildly different to active fermentation hopping, and how some like to go for the milkshake with hops, while others drop clear. This is that emerging science stuff I just mentioned. The yeast in the milkshake instance might be enjoying the protein rich space and all of the beautiful volatile bits in the pellets that get added while the yeast are still in active fermentation, and they go milkshake for you.
Look up fermentation hopping, or active fermentation hopping on the wisdom generator. I forget where I saw the article, but it's some interesting stuff. I'd do more research on yeast strains that don't floc out.

 

Brewtan B has been getting attention on other forums and and podcasts.

It also chelates metals such as iron and copper. If iron and copper are in the beer, those will be a cause of staling reactions. So it will extend the life of the beer.

Edit Brewtan B may be available to homebrewers around July.

 

Jeff, what would be the source of iron and copper in beer? Would it be from the brewing water?

Cheers!

 

I'm guessing iron would be mainly from water as I can't see anybody using galvanized piping in their systems...at least I hope nobody is. But copper I could see coming from wort chillers, and other copper fittings. Does any yeast nutrients have cooper, or is that just zinc?

 

Dave, I use Wyeast yeast nutrient when I brew:

"Wyeast Labs' proprietary blend of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, nitrogen compounds, zinc, and trace elements necessary for rapid and complete fermentation."

So, obviously this product contains zinc (since it is explicitly listed) but no specific mention of copper.

Do you have a contact at Wyeast where you can inquire about copper?

Cheers!

 

Hmm...purposefully adding tannins to beer...that's a new one to me. I mean I know with lambic productions, brewers would often sparge the mash with near boiling water which would leach more tannins than usual, and we'll get some tannins from oaking...but never just adding tannins like a winemaker might. I mean, I guess if a brewer really wanted their hefe to remain hazy but has had trouble with their yeast strain...then maybe, but I'd be interested to know know if it affects flavor in anyway besides potential more astringent (from both the tannins & the yeast in suspension)

 

I think I only know the owner there these days Jack...and she's a tough one to track down.
Here is a good presentation from CBC:
http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015_presentations/R0900_Ruth_Martin.pdf
Not as much help...but still good info on yeast nutrients:
http://byo.com/mead/item/2043-what-are-yeast-nutrients-and-how-are-they-used

 

Dave, did you attend the 2009 NHC? Dr. Tobias Fischborn (Lallemand/Danstar) gave a presentation and on one chart:

“Toxic trace ions: Pb, Cd, Cr, Hg, Cu etc.”

Since copper is listed as a “toxic” element I am pretty sure there will not be any copper in yeast nutrient.

Cheers!

 

Grand Rapids was my first NHC...
i've never heard of Cu listed as a 'toxic' element...yeah I mean if you're getting big doses, but in the extreme low levels that maybe found in to boost fermentation health. The CBC presentation did list Cu as a 'Beneficial Impact' trace element.

 

Dave,

In the CBC presentation both sides (Beneficial and Negative) of copper is discussed:

“Impact of Trace Metals

Beneficial Impacts:

Copper

• Copper is found in many enzymes that are essential to normal cellular function

• Yeast nutrient

• Dissolved copper reacts with sulfides to reduce sulfur flavors and aromas in beer

• Level recommended <0.25ppm in wort”



Later in the presentation:

“Impact of Trace Metals

• Negative Impacts:

Copper

• Changes yeast plasma membrane

• Disturbs the uptake of nutrients

• Oxidizer

• Copper present in wort at more than 10ppm is toxic to yeast

• Copper levels at 0.05 ppm are reported to cause damage in the final product”



I bolded parts like: “Yeast nutrient” and “Copper levels at 0.05 ppm are reported to cause damage in the final product”.

I am not certain what “damage in the final product” constitutes. Do you know?

Given the low values mentioned does it make sense they would add copper to yeast nutrient?

Cheers!

 

I can vouch that this product does help stabilize haze. And I haven't tasted any tannic astringency. I know one of the brewers here in Eugene doing NE IPA has played with it. I brewed one myself a month ago with no whirfloc, high wheat and unmalted oats, a strain that typically stays in suspension, fermentation hopping, no fining agents... a month in the keg cold and it is nearly as clear as a fresh West Coast IPA.

I would venture that the brewers on the East Coast may not be using this product as they move their beers faster out there than we do up here in the PNW where everyone still bitches about them. When a brewer up here makes a couple NE and an couple WC IPA there can be a back load of beers sitting in the cooler waiting to tap and dropping clear by the last few kegs.