Tasting Beer Again and Getting Totally Different Tastes

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by bluehende, Dec 12, 2014.

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  1. bluehende

    bluehende Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    The setup

    On Thanksgiving I bought a growler of Southern Tier's Choklat. We had it after dinner and to me it tasted like tons on chocolate. Sweet and thick with a bit of bitterness on the finish not unlike bitter chocolate. Some people referred to it like a chocolate milk shake.

    Fast forward 2 weeks

    I was at a tasting last night at the same store as I bought the growler and again had Choklat on draft. This time it did not have the same mouth feel. It was much less thick and sweet. The taste I get is fairly heavy cherry with some chocolate.

    Variables

    These two beers could have even come from the same keg. In the least I will assume that the beer had not changed at all. On the second tasting I did have it after Mad Elf a cherry stout. I did clear my palette and saw maybe a little drop in the Cherry, but not much.

    My Thoughts

    I was not surprised to taste cherry in Choklat after Mad Elf. I was surprised I could not clear it. I am sure that the slight bitterness on the Thanksgiving tasting is those cherries. Cherries are used in Choklat. I actually did not know that until after I had tasted the beer 2 weeks later. This should not have influenced my perception until after I cleared my palette. I know you can have very different perceptions of taste depending on what you have been eating among many variables that can change your taste. I was shocked to see that much of a difference though.

    Discussion

    I would put out two points for discussion.
    1. Do you think the whole difference in perception was due to my taste variance? Has anyone else seen this with Choklat or any other beer?
    2. How much of what you anticipate a beer to taste like influences your actual taste? Blind tasting would be a great way to determine this. It is not that easy to do without some help. My next push into my beer education has to be to try as many beers as I can knowing as little as possible about what they are.
     
  2. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Or... go back to beers you've only had once and revisit them to see if you get a different impression.
    With music, I used to think that the second time you listened to an album was the first time you heard the album.
     
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  3. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    In a typical nothing out of the ordinary evening, I may have from zero to 2 beers. It is not unusual for the two beers (when I have 2) to be different. I rinse the glass, but that is it; no formal "palate cleansing".

    The taste of the 2nd beer, to me, is definitely influenced by the taste of the first, and both are influenced by what I may be eating at the time.

    Also, I have found that my impression of a beer (from "yuk" all the way up to "wonderful") is frequently at least a little different the second time (on a different day) compared with the first. IDK if that difference is due to expectations changing or not. The most typical change is moving from the low end of the scale to higher. Rarely does a beer taste worse the 2nd time than the first, for me, anyway.

    I don't know the explanation for this, really, but it is why I try to have at least two of a new beer, each on different days, before I will attempt to review it. I'll take notes on the first tasting, but they are provisional pending the second.
     
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  4. mychalg9

    mychalg9 Pooh-Bah (2,123) Apr 8, 2010 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Try your favorite IPA after tasting a few other IPA's. The results are interesting.
     
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  5. bluehende

    bluehende Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    My palette gets fatigued pretty quickly with big IPA's.
     
  6. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    I'd suggest that much if not all of the difference in your particular example was due to taste variance, but not variance in you pers se, but rather variance in what you'd had to eat and its carry over effects on your palate. The more subtle of these effects can carry over for several hours or even a day or two.

    Expectation definitely has an influence on tasting results in that there are blind tasting studies that have shown that with wine, for example its possible to give folks participating a white wine and they reported the tastes associated with white wines. Take the same white wine and add some food coloring to cause it to look like a red wine and the tasters reported picking up flavors associated with red wines. What's not clear is the degree to which those expectations can dominate the sensory experience. But they do have an effect.

    Question: Was this a pretty traditional Turkey dinner including cranberry sauce and all the other fixing?
     
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  7. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    In general its most likely an effect of other things eaten during the day but might also result from such things as tiredness, the beginnings of an illness, medication taken, etc.

    Generally folks who think their palate is unchanging could not be more wrong.... :slight_smile:
     
  8. bluehende

    bluehende Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    This is a big LOL. At this dinner a person had made home made cranberry sauce and I pigged out on it. On the second tasting dinner had some BBQ sauce if any one out there knows what the effect of these two things has on taste. My next experiment will be BBQ ribs with a side of chocolate.
     
  9. JayORear

    JayORear Grand Pooh-Bah (3,058) Feb 22, 2012 California
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This. Also, not just the beginnings of an illness, but the aftereffects, even several days' worth. I'm also pretty convinced that psychological factors affect changing tastes, even from day to day.
     
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  10. rynegne

    rynegne Initiate (0) Sep 10, 2014 Illinois

    Most likely had to do with what you ate, unless you did a palate cleanse in between the meal and the beer. Like @drtth said above, "what you'd had to eat and its carry over effects on your palate."....for better or for worse, this is most likely what caused the variance in taste.
     
  11. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Pigged out on cranberry sauce? Well there's a pretty plausible reason why the beer that night tasted like a chocolate bomb,... :-)
     
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  12. elkabong

    elkabong Initiate (0) Apr 1, 2014 Wisconsin

    so, so, so many variables impact perception of flavor, sound, sight, etc.

    it's the same beer. you just perceived it differently that time.
     
  13. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Not just with beer...

    That White Mug Makes Your Coffee Taste Bitter
     
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  14. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Some of the people I hang out with in my professional life have pretty convincing evidence you're absolutely correct and that the only thing to be debated is how strongly those Psychological factors operate in a particular case or in one case compared to another. Basically the way it looks to me from what I've heard them say is that the more abiguity there is about what to expect the greater the role of the psychological effects leading sensory experience.
     
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  15. cubbyswans

    cubbyswans Zealot (623) Jun 10, 2008 Missouri

    Case solved.
     
  16. bluehende

    bluehende Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    This was not an IPA tasting. I am sure you get general fatigue for all tastes so this has to have some effect. I also had it very early in the tasting. I do know the bitter receptors are easily fatigued. Since these were in general big malty bombs it is possible this had an effect. At even that point the sweet receptors were in hibernation while the bitter were looking hard for those cherries.
     
  17. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I applaud this. I get a little dumbfounded when I see a post that mentions opening a beer, trying it, reviewing it, and then finishing the bottle (in that order). Consumer-centric sites like this are wonderful but they can create a culture where people do funny things.
     
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  18. SeanBond

    SeanBond Pooh-Bah (2,904) Jul 30, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah, these were my exact thoughts. I've had much different experiences when I have a beer with food than without.
     
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