Testing new secondary regulator

Discussion in 'Home Bar' started by CrazyPete, Oct 10, 2019.

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  1. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    Hi All,

    Setting up my 1st keezer, and I am testing my taprite secondary (4) regulator. After pressurizing, I turned off the primary and after ~12 hours I have held ~ 15 psi (where I set them) on every regulator except one, which is now at ~5 psi. This is weird to me, since I would assume a leak would cause all to go down. Any advice?

    I was going to upload a pic but I'm not sure how.
     
    #1 CrazyPete, Oct 10, 2019
  2. matthewp

    matthewp Pundit (856) Feb 27, 2015 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Regulators are one way so a leak in one shouldn't affect the others.
     
    #2 matthewp, Oct 10, 2019
  3. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    To post a picture you'll need to use a third-party image hosting service (Imgur, Photobucket, etc.).
    After uploading your image to the third-party service, click the image and copy the link that says "Direct link".
    When composing a post in BA, click the image icon (looks like mountains and a sun) and paste the url you copied.
    When your post is made, the image will appear in it.
     
    #3 riptorn, Oct 10, 2019
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  4. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    #4 CrazyPete, Oct 10, 2019
  5. matthewp

    matthewp Pundit (856) Feb 27, 2015 Massachusetts
    Trader

    That didn't work, I get picture not found. Should you worry? Yes, that's a good sized leak. Get some soapy water and a spray bottle. Turn on the CO2 and spray anywhere there could be a leak. You will see bubbling where the leak is. You either need to tighten your connection or you are missing/have a bad washer. Hard to say more without seeing your picture.
     
    #5 matthewp, Oct 10, 2019
    CrazyPete likes this.
  6. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Nope

    Open your pic in photos.google.com
    Right click on the pic and select "Copy image address"
    Start a post on BA and click the icon that looks like mountains with a sun/moon (if you hover over that icon it'll say "Image"). It's just to the right of the smiley icon.
    You'll get a popup with a "Image URL" box.
    Paste the link the link you just copied
    Click "Insert"

    [​IMG]

    ^ ^ ^ this should happen ^ ^ ^
     
    #6 riptorn, Oct 10, 2019
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  7. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    OK - got it - thanks!
     
    #7 CrazyPete, Oct 10, 2019
  8. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Weird is an appropriate description . . . these secondaries have a common manifold. The hex couplers (you have 3 of them) should serve as a common manifold for the four secondaries. Your check valve is in the shut-off valve, but the valve is switched off (nothing to check). All four units are sharing a common supply, one should not go down without all going down. Sometimes you see a rouge gauge but three of them shouldn't tell the same lie (maybe the 5psi'er is the lying bastard?). When you re-pressurize the unit does the first secondary go back up to 15?

    Have you given the other 3 high (15 psi) gauges a good old "thump" test. Give them a solid thump with your knuckle or handle of screwdriver to see if they move. If this doesn't work reset the pressure to 40'ish psi and get out the soapy water (or Starsan). Should be easier to find the leak at the higher setting. On a plus note, you are way ahead of the game by troubleshooting before you hook up the beer. A keg'ers goal is to not be recognized when you fill your CO2 tank.
     
    #8 PortLargo, Oct 10, 2019
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  9. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    So I did the "thump" on the other three high ones and no change. The 5 psi does go back up if I re-pressurize. I also "resetted" the entire thing by depressurizing and re-pressurizing again. I did the leak test but at 15 psi and didn't see anything, so I will repeat at 40 psi.

    Maybe the manifold includes one way check valves, so if you are leaking at the reg next to the the line, the CO2 doesn't flow back through? I dunno...
     
    #9 CrazyPete, Oct 10, 2019
  10. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    [​IMG]
     
    #10 CrazyPete, Oct 10, 2019
  11. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    Can't see any leaks at 40 psi (soapy water). Checked at output from primary, and all joints on secondary. Could it leak from underneath the secondary adjustment valve?

    [​IMG]
     
    #11 CrazyPete, Oct 10, 2019
  12. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Not really. The manifold is essentially those hex-shaped couplers (actually called a nipple). Nothing more than a double-male fitting, completely hollow inside.
    Yes, quite possible. But a leak there would drain the entire manifold . . . all the other gauges should decrease as well. At 40psi you really should get bubbles and usually you can hear the escaping gas.

    Your description makes me think the first gauge is mis-behaving. But a couple of more troubleshooting ideas: Re-pressurize then cut off primary reg supply. Then open the shut off valve of the high-reading secondary. All four gauges should immediately go to zero. Then try again with the number one secondary (the potential defective one) and see what happens. Before going to bed re-pressurize, shut off master tank valve and see how they read in the morning, interested if it deceases to zero or always stops at 5psi. Repeat the opening of shut-off valves and report what happens to the pressure reading. Do the soap test on both input/output of primary reg and tank master valve also.
     
    #12 PortLargo, Oct 10, 2019
  13. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    Take that gage off and move it to another position, see if the problem moves with it.
     
    #13 DougC123, Oct 10, 2019
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  14. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    OK, so maybe weirder... If I pressurize the system and then shut off the primary regulator, and then open the shut off valve (the line going to the kegs) of the the first reg (the one that leaks), that guage goes to zero, all other guages stay the same. If I open the shut off for any of the other three regs, the one I opened goes to zero, and all others stay the same EXCEPT the first reg which also goes to zero. I tried this a few times cause I didn't understand.
     
    #14 CrazyPete, Oct 11, 2019
  15. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    So I did test the output of the primary reg (last pic above). I'm not worried about the rest of the primary reg since it holds when I close the tank and close the primary reg output.
     
    #15 CrazyPete, Oct 11, 2019
  16. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    Update: So the leaking reg went from 40 psi to 20 psi over ~12 hours.

    Also, I learned some things about my secondary regulator: If all regs are set to lower pressures (~15 psi), then venting one has no effect on the others. However if any one of them is set high (needs to be above 35 psi), and I vent any of the other regs (set to 15 psi), the high one will also drop pressure after a second. My assumption is that there are one way valves going from the manifold into each regulator to stop backflow of gas, however if the pressure differential is too high the valve fails and backflow occurs.

    Anyway, I may take DougC's advice and swap the reg to the other side (pain, because they sealed these with something from the factory that makes taking them apart very tough) - maybe it is just my hose connection although why I don't see bubbles is odd...
     
    #16 CrazyPete, Oct 11, 2019
  17. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Is this your setup?
    https://www.amazon.com/Taprite-CGR284-PT-Way-Secondary-Regulator/dp/B00DE8GTZK

    Not sure if this helps.....but the product description states (emphasis mine):
    "Secondary regulators are used when you are attempting to dispense two or more kegs off of the same Co2 tank. A secondary regulator will allow you to regulate the pressure of each keg individually. This regulator has check valves built into the shut off valve to prevent backflow of liquid into the regulator body."
     
    #17 riptorn, Oct 11, 2019
  18. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    Yup - that is it (with one of the barb fittings replaced with a plug). However, I think that the check valve in the shut off valve would not have the effect I'm seeing (where the high pressure reg with closed shut off valve drops pressure when another regulator shut off valve is opened).

    Either way, since it happens on all four regulators I imagine it is part of the design and a red herring to my main problem. Interesting though...
     
    #18 CrazyPete, Oct 11, 2019
  19. matthewp

    matthewp Pundit (856) Feb 27, 2015 Massachusetts
    Trader

    The only other thing I would add is to really spray the heck out of it all with the soapy water. I had a slow leak at one point and I had tried a few times using the soapy water. I think I fixed one leak but the other one never showed up until I stopped sparing the spray. I will also add that the first regulator I had seemed to behave very oddly when my CO2 levels were low. I always knew my tanks were getting low when my pressures would start to be all over the place. Good luck, leaks can be maddening.
     
    #19 matthewp, Oct 11, 2019
  20. CrazyPete

    CrazyPete Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2019 North Carolina

    Update: OK, so I gave up and took off the first regulator (I really only needed three but wanted to have a fourth in case I wanted to expand later). I did take the advice and pretty much sunk the think in soapy water... no bubbles.
    Anyway, I hooked my corny keg up to what was the second to last regulator (now the middle) and pressurized the keg to 20 psi. I then shut of the primary reg - lost ~ 5 psi/24 hours. However, when venting the pressure release valve in the keg it looks like it is still pressurized even after a week (and the reg gauge reading zero). I assume this has to do with the check valve in the secondary regulator not letting pressure back into the reg?
    Note that the two regulators flanking the one hooked to the keg both show no pressure drops after 4 days - so I haven't tried soapy water yet but I really don't get it - if it was leaking after the regulator (the hose attachment to the barb for instance) the keg should have depressurized.

    I'm really starting to feel like I'm missing something obvious and have no idea what I'm doing...
     
    #20 CrazyPete, Oct 18, 2019
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