That's one fuggly orange amber

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by AlCaponeJunior, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    OK. I have the grains for an American Amber with sweet orange peel. They cannot be changed. Suffice it to say it's mostly 2-row (88%) with some cara-amber, cara-red, and a tiny bit of carafa-III just for extra color. This is one of my last batches of pre-ordered grains (now I have a LHBS, so I don't need to decide on anything in advance).

    SRM is predicted to be 12.7. Perhaps a bit light, but whateva!

    I have the standard bag of 1oz sweet orange peel that I wish to add to this beer.

    Hops wise, I wish to use fuggles, and kicking-and-screamingly, maybe something else if absolutely necessary. I have various hops to choose from, if needed (belma, bravo, cascade, cluster, willamette, chinook, colombus). The one possible issue is that it's a FOUR gallon batch, and I only have leaf fuggles. Thus, if the leaves are going to suck up too much wort, I will take that into consideration. I haven't used leaf hops before.

    So the questions are...

    Mash temp?

    Hops schedule?

    When to add the orange peel?

    FWIW it's a batch sparge, single infusion, 5 gallon cooler with stainless mesh filter and 5 gallon pot, single propane burner setup. Temperature control will be by freezer w/controller. Tapwater is currently cool enough to chill to about 66-67F with my wort chiller. Yeast is S-04 done with a rehydration, no starter technique.

    I want the IBUs to be around 27-30, and I want the beer to be a flavorful tasty treat for me, but relatively non-threatening for my brother, who will be first time brewing this batch with me. He likes primarily light lagers, but sometimes some other stuff like Sam Adams, various pale ales, the occasional oddball like dead guy ale* etc.

    IPA territory is not yet within my brother's reach. You have to build up to that stuff. :rolling_eyes:

    Personally, I'd like to make it a fairly low IBU, mostly or all late hopped, hoppy amber (almost hop-bursted) with some light contreau like flavor.

    *personally, I don't like dead guy ale, lol, but double dead guy was pretty decent
     
    #1 AlCaponeJunior, Nov 28, 2012
  2. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I see a touch of chocolate malt entering your malt bill. I think it is a great idea to use an English ale yeast for this one. Keep the FG up a tad and keep a heavy malt balance. That said, I don't know what 04's attenuation rate is. This will help keep the orange from being overpowering. Personally, I'd rather have a neauance than an orange soda. I'd start with an oz of orange peel for the last 5 min of the boil. Rack off the orange peel and don't put it in the fermenter. Add more if you need to in late primary.

    I've had great luck with simple bittering additions with fuggles. I'd do 80% or more of your IBUs at the 60 min mark. I'd consider a 10 min addition too. I'd worry that hop bursting would be on a similar playing field as an IPA for your brother--and orange isn't going to ease the burning tongue. :slight_smile:

    Keep this simple for your brother and let him appreciate that brewing doesn't have to take constant attention and be a PITA. Let the ingredients do the work, hit your temps (152 for the mash BTW) and you'll end up with something really tasty.
     
    #2 inchrisin, Nov 28, 2012
  3. hopsandmalt

    hopsandmalt Initiate (0) Dec 14, 2006 Michigan

    IMO I wouldn't waste the fuggles on bittering. I'd use maybe a scant 1/4oz of CTZ @ 60 for bittering and do 2oz of fuggles each at 10 min, 0 min., and dryhop.

    Don't worry too much about wort absorption from the hops. Just use a paint strainer in the boil and wring it out with sanitized hands after chilling.
     
    #3 hopsandmalt, Nov 28, 2012
  4. Jaysus

    Jaysus Initiate (0) Jan 16, 2003 Pennsylvania

    For whatever it is worth, I think that the Chinook/Colukmbus combo is AWESOME in an American amber ale :wink:

    On a more related note, the S-04 will attenuate really well... you may want to consider bumping up the mash temps a few degrees to account for that.

    You've got some good advice from the posters above me. Keep us updated on how everything turns out (and how your brother likes it)
     
    #4 Jaysus, Nov 28, 2012
  5. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    If your beers attenuate well (from previously tasting, they seem to be pretty spot on), I'd go with something in the range of 154-156. Personal experience brewing American Ambers is that mine always finish too dry, and I'm usually mashing at 152 (And with a fair amount more crystal malt than you are).

    Re hops, go for the hop bursting. Ambers shouldn't have harsh bitterness (IIRC Fuggles is pretty smooth), so loading up late in the boil and trying to hit ~25-30 IBU seems reasonable, and should give you a nice hop flavor (earthy goodness), but keep it smooth. I'm too lazy to calculate stuff, but 1-2 oz each @ 20, 10, 0, dry hop should do the trick.

    For wits I add my orange peel at 5 minutes and keep it there through chilling. Some people add it at 10-30 min left in boil and others add at flame out. Depends what you're looking for. 1 oz is fine, just add it all; you could also replace with fresh orange zest (make sure not to get pith) or make a vodka tincture with fresh orange zest and add at bottling to taste if the orange isn't where you want it.

    S-04 (Whitbred Strain; 1099 from WY, I think) sometimes gets some bad press, but I've had nothing but solid beers from it (Beers have done very well in comps as well), so its a nice choice for an amber (I like Nottingham and the Cali Super Yeast as well; Cali Super been my go to lately for West Coast Hop Bombs).
     
    #5 barfdiggs, Nov 28, 2012
  6. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    OK. Taking into consideration all the above posts (great posts, btw), and what barfdiggs is saying (and I know he's tasted my beers), here are my thoughts...

    My attenuation has been pretty good. I WAS fermenting in a steady 67-69F closet (that's the ones you tasted, barfdiggs). NOW I have a chest freezer with johnson controller and plan to ferment at about 66F (that's where it seems to like to be, lol). I'm in Texas now, and it's WARM here, so I have to trust my freezer and controller to emulate my prior closet pretty well.

    I am assuming that my prior attenuation is likely to remain fairly similar. I do think I've had pretty good attenuation as my FG's have been pretty spot on to what I expected. My pale ales and IPAs have typically gone down to somewhere between 1.014 and 1.010. I don't think I've brewed a beer that was higher than 1.018 FG.

    I am going to stick with what has worked in the past. For one thing, I am not an expert brewer. For another, I have recently switched to all grain (barfdiggs, you might have tried my very first AG beer, if you had the maris otter/willamette SMaSH, I can't remember exactly, but I know it was drinkable, if not spectacular). For a third thing, I would like to continue what worked in the past and try to incorporate that into my new setup, which includes the freezer/controller, and an outdoor turkey fryer propane setup. Mind you this next batch will still be four gallons (I'm looking for a pot, will have it soon).

    I do have nottingham... but I've had success with 04 as well. I'm still thinking S-04 but could go either way.

    re: inchrisin... I could potentially add a slight bit of chocolate malt to increase the SRM (say 2oz). The rest of the grain bill cannot be modified as it's already ground, mixed, and ready to mash. It would be very easy to pop in two ounces of chocolate malt though, with the great new LHBS right down the street. I think this is a good suggestion as my SRM was a bit light for an amber ale.

    Also, I know what I've done that has been successful and want my brother to experience success his first go-round. So now that I've rambled on... here's what I'm thinking (still subject to modification upon further replies)..........

    4 gallon batch

    6.0 lbs. pale malt (2-row)
    6 oz carared
    6 oz caraamber
    2 oz carafa III
    2 oz chocolate

    Mash temp 154

    Hops*

    1 oz fuggles at 30
    1.25 oz fuggles at 10
    1 oz fuggles at 0
    1 oz fuggles Dry Hop

    1/8 tsp Irish moss fining agent at 15 min
    1/8 tsp yeast nutrient at 15 min

    1 oz sweet orange peel at 5 minutes**, removed before fermentation

    S-04 yeast, rehydrated

    6 gallons bottled spring water***

    OG 1.052
    IBU 26.9
    SRM 16.4
    ABV 4.8%

    *all hops are leaf, and in nylon paint bags (I have plenty of paint bags)
    **orange peel also in nylon paint bags
    ***note: the water at the brewing location has a funky chemical smell to me. I want to brew and I'm not sure about the water yet, so six bucks worth of spring water will be used on this batch until I learn more
     
    #6 AlCaponeJunior, Nov 29, 2012
  7. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    #7 AlCaponeJunior, Nov 29, 2012
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