The 750 Saison

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by zid, Jun 26, 2016.

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  1. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Fantome (The) Coffee Ruby

    The pleasure of Fantome Saison caused me to take a chance and buy some other Fantome beers that I've always passed on for one reason or another. I would ordinarily never spend much on a coffee beer. I'm not typically happy with them. This particular one won't be a repeat purchase, but I'm very happy with my decision to buy it.

    This beer is listed here as a saison but in my mind this is an unclassifiable beer.

    This beer is sour and acidic. It's much more interesting than other coffee beers, but not solely because it's a combination of disparate elements. The addition of coffee to a porter can go one of three ways - either a strong coffee bitterness is added to the beer, the beer takes on the qualities of a coffee dessert, or the coffee disappears into the beer and adds just a little support. The Coffee Ruby is truly one of a kind. The influence of the coffee is huge, but it doesn't have the flavor of a cup of coffee. Instead, the beer tastes like you are biting into a chocolate covered espresso bean. The flavor is very different. Now imagine that flavor sitting within (as opposed to meshed with) a sour Belgian beer. If that sounds very appealing to you then this beer is the only fix for that particular craving. As a likely one-time experience, I admired the beer very much for what it was.

    The label reads, "Very Bitter Taste" in big font. There are many reviews here that mention how bitter this beer is. I did not find it bitter at all. This might be because this beer wasn't brand new and the bitterness (from the coffee?) became muted over time. Maybe this is because the other reviewers were equating the bitterness to the coffee flavor, maybe the label influenced them, maybe it was what I ate that day, or maybe I missed the obvious.

    It's a totally unfelt 8% ABV. It's actually very light bodied for what it is. The flavors invite inspection rather then gulping. This beer is proof that sippers aren't always like big barley wines.
     
  2. Silke_Neryn

    Silke_Neryn Pooh-Bah (1,947) Nov 1, 2014 Sweden
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    This is a beautiful thread. Thank you.
     
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  3. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Thanks. As the other Ganstaller Brau Zoigl fan around here, I appreciate the comment.
     
  4. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Fantome Forest Ghost (Light)

    Another Fantome beer that has a "light" and "dark" version (although apparently Coffee Ruby did as well). If it is called Forest Ghost, why does it look like the Fantome Ghost is on the beach by a volley ball net? Why ask why with Fantome.

    I mentioned that I always passed on Coffee Ruby in the past, and the same is true of Forest Ghost but for a slightly different reason. I have certain price thresholds that I try not to cross with beer. The amount of this threshold has gone up over time. My first Fantome beer was Fantome Saison. At the time, this was the most I ever spent on a bottle of beer. It exceeded my normal limit. I've exceeded my current limit with Forest Ghost - a beer that is simply far more expensive than I normally go for. I don't regret trying this one.

    The beer is as close to a gusher as you can get without being a gusher. The carbonation rose to the top of the uncorked bottle and decided to camp out right at the top. The beer poured with lots of head. Unfortunately, the carbonation in the beer was too prickly for my taste.

    The beer has a strong hoppy character. It's rich but dry. It's earthy with a bitter finish. It's intensely fruity in the realm of tropical fruits and peach. It tastes spiced but in an unidentifiable way... maybe it isn't spiced.

    This was an immensely enjoyable beer. Characterful, unique and terrific.
     
  5. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Cambridge Brewing Company Brett Sematary

    I grabbed a bottle of this due to how much I enjoyed the other CBC beers. It's listed here as an American Wild Ale - which I wouldn't disagree with, but I suspected that this beer might resemble other beers that are listed here as saisons... such as some Fantome offerings.

    The name of the beer is a play on the Stephen King novel Pet Sematary, that's why "cemetery" is misspelled. King's novel uses the misspelling because children created the cemetery sign. The misspelling has the effect of making it difficult to find info on the beer. It's spelled two different ways on this site with two different entries, so I will submit a change request. In addition, CBC incorrectly spells it two different ways on their own site! Man wasn't meant to mess with the powers of resurrection or intentional misspellings. If you do so, prepare to get bit.

    With that out of the way, I'll explain the name. CBC took a beer on Halloween night, put it in oak barrels, and bottled it about a 1/2 year - 1 year later. When the beer was "brought back," it had soured from its time away. I've read that they used their pumpkin beer for this. The bottle makes no mention of what beer they used. Drinking Brett Sematary, I would never have guessed that it started out as a pumpkin beer. I wonder if they change the beer based on the year. Probably not. If you enjoy "American Wilds" but not pumpkin beers, have no fear.

    The beer is vinegary, acidic, dry. There's a tart berry quality. There's a faint woodiness, but I'm inclined to believe that this was the power of suggestion on me. The beer is very nice and goes down easy for the style. It's very well priced for the style and format.

    I noticed that the label stated that it was brewed at Mystic. As this thread has shown, Mystic and CBC are two of my favorite US saison brewers. If anybody is interested in their partnership, here's a BeerAdvocate thread that explains it.
     
  6. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Southampton Grand Cru

    OK, I knew this was gonna be an old bottle... and I knew that this isn't a saison, but I decided to pick one up and include it here as my "goodbye" to buying any more Southampton 750s in stores (unless things change on the production and distribution side).

    Regarding the disclaimers above about age and style:
    - I have had this beer from an aged keg and it was fantastic in that context.
    - As a very unique and strong Belgian "pale ale" brewed with spices, it fits into a loose idea of a Belgian Ale rather than sticking to any style guideline. The brewery website includes it on its list of "farmhouse ales."

    It was oxidized as predicted, but not terribly so. It has a richness that makes it feel like a dessert beer. It drinks like the beer version of an orange liqueur with herbs.
     
  7. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    As my barley wine thread demonstrated, I am really bad at ending a thread when I say I will end it. I tend to find more beers that I want to include. In the case of Jester King, I've encountered more of their beers on the shelf here in the past half year than I've encountered in the last 5 years combined. The thing is, these beers are all new to the shelf, but they're all about a year old. Is old stock being dumped in my area? I don't know. Not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, I've been picking up what I've been bumping into. I also grabbed a Jester King Simple Means - which isn't in the picture... and a Three's Table Beer - a beer from a NYC brewery.

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  8. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Threes Table Beer

    Threes is a NYC brewery. Years ago, NYC wasn't known for saison production and I don't think anything has really changed... although some breweries are trying. I'll mention some of the breweries that started out with a Belgian or saison focus.

    I've already featured Transmitter in this thread. They still pump out Belgian inspired beers, but when beer geeks talk about them, they seem to gravitate to their Berliner Weisse. A quick look at their beer list here shows their saison focus. Is this indication of how people tend to just say "sour" as a beer style, no matter what the origin?

    LIC Beer Project is another NYC brewery that had a Belgian focus. I met the brewer when they were first starting. At the time, they produced saisons and biere de garde. The brewer worked at Thiriez in France. I asked him about the yeast he used and he said he did everything with his saison yeast. I asked him if he considered doing anything different and he said that his saison yeast is what he knew well. He's serious about Belgian techniques. I remember hearing an interview with him and he stated his admiration for Other Half because they've carved out a niche for themselves (IPAs) and are doing well by focusing on it. Fast forward to today and LIC is finally getting plenty of attention from the beer fans... but for (you guessed it) their IPAs. A look at their beer list also shows that they are making (you guessed it) Berliner Weisse. I don't fault them for this at all.

    Threes was the other saison focused NYC brewery. They've since turned some attention to pale ales and pilsners. Back to their saison focus, they've worked with breweries like Ommegang and Allagash. Of the saisons from them that I've had on tap, they've ranged from terrible (in my eyes) to the best saisons to come out of NYC (in my eyes). The latter was a collaboration with Ommegang so I wonder if that had anything to do with it (although I dislike Hennepin).

    This is a bottle of their "table beer." ABV is listed here as 4.2%.

    It's a pale chalky yellow. It's light and lemony. This is a yeast delivery beer. In the scheme of yeast/hops/malt, this beer is all yeast. It's a Belgium-phobe's worst nightmare. While I warmed up to the beer and ended up liking it despite its lack of balance... I simply don't want a table beer that needs warming up to. That's at odds with its purpose.
     
  9. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Jester King Le Petit Prince

    While I was in Belgium, I was fortunate to try a bottle of Thiriez's Le Petite Princesse. My reaction at the time was, "Why can't I get a low ABV table beer this good in the US?" The silliness of that question was apparent to me since the beer was a collaboration with Jester King. When Jester King visited Thiriez in France, they decided to produce Le Petite Princesse. The recipe was the same between the beers, but the ingredients (malt, hops, water, yeast) were all unique to the region. There was a yeast kinship however, since Jester King's yeast derived from the Thiriez yeast.

    Modifying my reaction to Princesse, let's just say that a bottled beer like this and as good as this is a very rare thing in the US.

    This beer is 2.9% ABV. Can a 2.9% bottle conditioned beer be delicious after one year in the bottle? The answer is yes. It possesses a balance that the Three's beer lacked. The hops sing clearly with an earthy prickly bitterness. The bready malt and body is light but not lacking. I was concerned when the ingredient list included "souring bacteria," but this beer isn't sour (thankfully). I wouldn't be surprised if there was brett in this, but I don't know if there is or isn't.

    As they say, I could drink this all day... and isn't that the point? Is this beer much different from Princesse? I couldn't tell you with the time that passed between them, but I'll say that Prince reminds me of the memory of Princesse (maybe just hoppier? - I don't recall). This beer just works and the well-executed simplicity is more impressive than an "everything but the kitchen sink" beer.
     
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  10. Moose90

    Moose90 Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2012 Washington

    I've had a bottle of this in my fridge for quite a while now, you may have just pushed me over the edge to pour it out and enjoy. Cheers!
     
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  11. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Definitely do so. Hope you enjoy it. Just keep in mind that my reactions unabashedly reflect my own preferences.
     
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  12. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
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    ... and report back here, of course :wink:.
     
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  13. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Jester King 2015 Autumnal Dichotomous

    After the highs of Le Petit Prince comes the lows of this beer. It gushed worse than any other beer in this thread so far. The first pic shows the foam filled bottle, and the second shows all of the beer that could be salvaged. A super quick scan of the reviews of this beer indicates that this happened to others. I'm annoyed at the situation. When I'm buying an ancient bottle of Saison De Pipaix, I know that I'm rolling the dice. I make that choice and I live with the results. When I'm paying premium prices for a Jester King bottle, I expect to get more than a few ounces from it.

    This beer is made with mandarins and cinnamon. I guess they were going for a winter holiday dessert vibe for this saison. The beer in my glass only hints at this. It is murky, dry, earthy, slightly acidic, totally still, and a little bitter... but not nearly as bitter as I am.
     
    #473 zid, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Kind of reminds me of my "Summer of Pilsner" thing in NBS. I have already 'extended' that by last week's post.:rolling_eyes:

    Spoiler alert! I will be discussing another new Pilsner this upcoming Sunday.:flushed:

    Maybe there is no such thing as too much of a good thing!?!:wink:

    Cheers!
     
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  15. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
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    Love Fantome, but I have to put them under the category of "only at Euro pricing." Always seems 50-50 between amazing beer (Fantome Saison is certainly in that category) and...not so amazing/weird. BBB Dark White pushed my absolute limits on clove, nutmeg, spices. If the price is okay, it is a super brewery to throw the dice and see what you get...or just stick to the ones you know are great.
     
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  16. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
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    This Jester King and Au Baron collab was one of my finds in Paris a month or so ago. I finally cracked it open. A decent beer de garde, but honestly a bit boring. Fairly solid all-round (except for strangely terrible head and head retention), but no aspect stood out as special. I'd happily consume more, but it didn't meet my (possibly too high) expectations.
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  17. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Jester King Biere de Miel

    Apologies for my shortness with this post. This is a wild fermentation honey beer. I am totally assuming that this beer owes its existence in the Jester King family to the Dupont beer of the same name. To me, this is a one-note sour beer, lacking in any complexity. I am perfectly willing to accept the fact that the qualities of this beer might simply be in my blind spot.
     
  18. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    The absolutely last group of beers and I mean it this time.
     
  19. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
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    :rolling_eyes:
     
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  20. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Blackberry Farm Brett Saison

    Apologies for abandoning my consistent background and glass. Beyond that transgression, this isn't even a 750. It's a 12.7oz bottle. I felt that it made sense to include this beer given the other Blackberry Farm appearances.

    This beer was aged in red wine barrels. If I didn't know that, I never would have guessed it from tasting it... but the lack of head on the beer is the giveaway. This beer is terrible in the looks department.

    Oddly enough, the brett qualities of the beer have that wonderfully infamous character in such abundance. Before this beer, I haven't had one in this thread that really embodied this.

    There's a fresh apple aroma that fills the room upon opening. The beer has a strong cheese taste. It's earthy, odd, funky, and exceptionally dry. The character level hurts its drinkability. A great beer.
     
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