The 750 Saison

unibroue has faded form my grocery store selections. So did ommegang phase itself out it seems. I will look for that one in the shop. Saisons can be as hard to find as lagers used to be.

 

I am just checking in to this thread to say I am very excited. I just picked up two new beers for this week and I cannot wait to try them.

The first one is made with a hop I adore. The Belma hop which I first heard of in Saranac's original wild hop pils. Also I think that years ago dogfish head had a Belma pale ale in their taproom. I don't know of any other beers right off the top of my head that feature Belma hops. The second one is just too exciting. A black saison made with black lemons? What's a black lemon? See you on Sunday. =)

 

The dark saison is one of those NEW styles that just HAD to be made. Until someone does it perfectly though it is hard to say if the "new" style is legitimate or not. The saison is defined if not by it's color then by these qualities -

Fruity spicy flavors supported by a soft malt character, low to moderate alcohol, something tart on the nose and in the finish that is not really sour. it's a prickly acidity. dry finish and the saison adds sugar and spices.

imo the darker malts tend to overshadow all the pertinent qualities of the saison. It's not enough to just taste like fruit, it also has to be light, dry and bubbly, spicy or phenolic, have high attenuation and the tartness int he finish is not that big. The saison finishes malty although it is highly hopped.

To create that sourness you can use gypsum, acidulated malt, a sour mash or lactobacillus. Hard water accentuates bitterness and a dry finish.

Citron Noir from Urban Family Brewing Co.

The nose is citrusy with lemon/ lime and shows earthy roast like coffee. A light sweetness on top and not much phenols. I think there was some clove int he background. It does have a tartness on the nose and a very prominent citrusy scent that seems to wax and wane. Usually, in the other dark saisons that I have tried, the dark malts take over the nose and the palate. In this one the spice form the black lemon holds it's own on the nose but struggles a little on the palate. No real hop scents on the nose just the lemon and what ever herbal backs that. I think it's a piney herbal.

Drinks well but a bit heavier than the style usually. It dose taste very exciting and invigorating with the citrus flavor. There is a prickly moment of acidity that you notice right away at first then the dark malt flavors start to creep up BUT it holds it's own. You can taste it in the aftertaste and that is very important to this beer. Finishes a touch sweet and then the bubbles dry it out at the end to reveal chocolate and spice. Roasty bitterness, coffee and because there is a touch of caramel ( I think) it finishes a bit fuller than you really want. The carbonation keeps it drier and the well done malt character dries out like a good black beer should. It's the bubbles that keep it away from resembling a stout and I am not sure if they added any sugar. My thought was why add sugar to dark malts which are going to leave sugars any way? Hops show pepper in the finish so I know the brewer had his eye on the style. Caramel develops and adds a nutty flavor or is that the yeast? The other thing is the malt character is not really "Soft" if I am tasting bitterness from malt, coffee and bitter chocolate let alone caramel and nuts. However that would be innovation and a small point to concede.

This beer could be it. The exemplar of a new variation on this style. it's not a new style so it has to meet the expectations of the original style for the most part. The first place where you can see how important is brewing method is the appearance. This beer is an impeccable saison if not for the dark color. . Rich hues with a creamy Belgian style head of foam. Light haze and uniform stream of effervescence that can be seen coming up from the bottom. The head clings in a big sheet as you drink and falls shimmering and wet. And because the brewer understands the dark malts the glints are reddish.

I think that this beer could be the best example of a new variation on the saison style because it met the saison style completely. From appearance to finish. It uses dark malts so you allow for that in the appearance score and in the flavors somewhat. You have to decide for yourself if you like this lime like flavor with the dark malts. I did., but not at first. My honest feeling at first is why the dark malts in my saison. They are a bit heavy. Then it grew on me as it warmed and that important too. You should serve the sasion at cellar temperature. This beer did not end up like a different style as it warmed. it did not become some kind of wrong schwarzbier or some kind of strange porter. This beer did finish malty not like a black IPA.

For my inspired dish as I like to call them, I made a roast chicken with ancho chile, marjoram and lemon. I also made a cream sauce for that with apples and peppers and purple onion. This beer is a good example of a new variation on an old style.

Cheers!

 

I think fantome has been making dark saison for a long time. Pipeworks did one a few years ago https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/28178/85769/

They seem to be polarizing

 

I was one of the few that enjoyed that Stone collaboration one a few years ago, but they really got the feel right. If you have the dryness, mouthfeel and yeast signature down, then it's a Saison to me .

Vistory has a pretty good one out now, too.

 

So happy to have one more to share with this thread by the end of the year! It's gotta chill! =)

 

So after much inspiration from this thread, I made my 1st attempt at home brewing as a saison (as my 1st ever homebrew attempt of any style for that matter). Even though I made numerous flaws in the processthe 1st time through, my saison came out very respectable. Used a Belle yeast which was very forgiving and not as tempermental as other strains. The beer was very light in body, as it continues to bottle condition (probably about 5 weeks now since I've bottled..been drinking them for 3 weeks), they continue to improve in carbonation and head retention despite my error of under-measuring the priming sugar (for you non-homebrewers, that is what helps carbonate the beer in the bottle after you cap it. The aroma is wonderful, nice and fruity, bubble-gummy, banana etc. Taste interestingly doesn't follow the nose and its very light/subtle in flavor, only hints of sweetness, minimal spice (which I was happy with as I don't like the peppery spice in my saisons) and a dry, champagne-like finish. Honestly, if I were to try to rate it amongst commercial brewed saisons, its very mid-road. A lot worse ones out there for sure.

How would I tinker the recipe next time? Try to add a touch more flavor (either a touch more sweetness or tartness), and more body (less watery, more bready).

Overall, I'm very pleased with my first try at brewing a saison and that it was actually an enjoyable beer and not a drain pour or something to have to work through. I actually feel good about giving a few bottles out as X-mas gifts.

 

I would strongly encourage you to permit some of your beers to age for a few months. I homebrew a batch of Saison every year (for the past 15+ years) and those batches significantly improve with months of bottle aging. Hopefully your first batch will significantly improve with more bottle aging.

Cheers!

 

I will certainly do that. I've noticed improvements in carbonation and also flavor just taste testing bottles over 3-4 weeks.

 

Wonderful! =)

 

The hour may seem odd but I had to open this bottle. Saison Dupont Cuvee Dry Hopping Brewers Gold.

Pours a very hazy apricot color with an off white head of good foam that lasts well. The color improves as you drink to show you more hues and some light passing through.

Nose is sweet mango! Stone fruits and hop pepper mixed with a little barnyard funk. It's sharp that funk. The hop is crisp and lemony. There is a touch of sweet sugar on the lemon so that it smells like a lemon candy. Herbal hop. Malt is a sweet touch of honey on a cracker.

Drinks dry, bubbly and malty. Hops are not so prominent on the palate but that sweet peach is still there with a bit of spice. Citrusy and floral. It's bubbly but not fizzy and that shows off the malt. Icy melon and just a bit of tartness finish this beer perfectly. None of the alcohol is on the nose or the palate. Hops are a touch bitter at the end.

 

While it's not in a 750 bottle I thought this would be a good place to report a bit on a Sofie from Goose Island that has now 18 mos. of bottle age.

My original review of a relatively fresh bottle describes it this way:

"Pours out into a nonic pint glass a nice clear yellow with visible carbonation and a 1/2" head of foam that soon settles to a persistent thin layer covering most of the liquid. Sipping leaves a sheet of foam on one side and widely scattered small speckles of lacing. The layer of foam and the light cabonation persist for quite a while.

The aromas include a touch of yeast up front along with hints of the lemon zest and a trace of pepper.

The flavors are much as expected from the nose, showing off the yeast and white pepper, a bit of lemon zest and what may well be hints of the oak.

The mouth feel is on the light side of medium bodied with persistent light prickly carbonation. The medium length finish begins as the yeast and pepper fade into some lightly flavored citric dryness.

I've had this beer at several ages now and as far as I'm concerned it is both a keeper and one to bring back when this case is gone. The changes over time are subtle but interesting and well worth exploring further. I fully expect to be getting another case of this in the not too distant future."

The bottle I'm having now is from that second case which was bottled in early July of 2015 and has been quietly resting in the cellar. As I expected based on some comments made a while back by @TongoRad, and a few others, the Brett funk has started to show with bottle age. While it is still quite light, a touch of funk was indeed detectable in the aroma with the opening of the bottle and the flavors also now include a very light funkiness. Naturally the hop flavors, which were hard to sort out even in the fresh bottles, are not really noticeable but this beer is otherwise still very similar to the bottle reviewed.

I've two more bottles from the case resting quietly in the basement, one to be opened this coming July, the other to mature for another year.

 

Tom, thank you for your thorough post.

I too am a fan of Sofie but the vast majority of my Sofie consumption is via draft (i.e., fresh beer). Based upon posts from Michael (@TongoRad) I bought two 4-packs of Sofie that was bottled in February (2016) for an aging 'experiment'. My current plan is to try one bottle at the one year mark (Fed. 2017) and then another bottle 6 months later (August 2017) and so on with 6 months timeframes. Based upon your experience is this a 'good' plan?

Cheers!

 

So far I like the plan. I've seen reports about 2 year old and so wanted to try it at 18 mos. then again at 2 years. While I'm tentatively targeting the last one for 3 years out that could change. But if I had as many in the basement as you do I'd opt for the every 6 mos. plan.

 

I have only had Matilda on draft (i.e., fresh) and never as a side by side with Orval but I would agree with you here. It is a "nice beer" but not particularly appealing for me. For example, I have never beer motivated to purchase a 4-pack of Matilda.

Yup, for my palate Matilda is a "sweeter" beer and frankly a bit too sweet for my personal palate. I might enjoy an aged Matilda but I am not motivated to try this out.

I will confine my experimentation with Sofie. I enjoy that beer fresh and hopefully I will enjoy that beer with age as well.

Cheers!