The Definitive Knock-down, Drag-out Cloudy Beer Debate Thread

When did clarity of beer become important? Reasonable guess, with the rise in popularity of Pils style beers (and their "imitators") in tandem with the availability of glassware that was clear and allowed one to see the beer and through the beer when held to the light, etc. (Most tankards you can't see much of the beer at all so the ales can be quite cloudy and nobody notices. And those fancy flip up lids were there to close, so flys and other insects would not get into your beer.)

So here you, are part of the emerging merchant/middle class. You can show off your wealth and station in life and distinguish yourself with your equally rich or richer guests by using a hard to come by, expensive set of those new fangled hand blown clear glass Pilsener glasses. Also you can show at the same time that you can afford the extra costs of a beer that has been lagered long enough to clarify and be seen through in one of those glasses.

 

And yet these days I find myself browsing for $100- $400+ steins...

 

You just summed up every WBAYDN thread.

 

Yep and probably pay $20 for a set of six machine made Pils glasses. (Those hand blown ones are still pretty damn pricy.) As the title of my all time favorite movie goes, "Things Change."

 

One of the reasons I never bother to post photos in my occasional and fairly rare posts in that thread.... (The other is I'm too lazy to create the capability.)

 

I include photos even when my lager ain't clear.

 

Yeah, that’s what some folks have been saying.... (among other things) :-)

 

Up until the 19th century most people drank beer out of wooden, pewter, ceramic or leather mugs and it didn't matter what beer looked like. Certain styles like Pilsners should be brilliantly clear. Hefeweizens and Wits are generally cloudy. Unfiltered beers loaded with hops may be cloudy. English Ales served too cold may have a chill haze that goes away as the beer warms. Some Belgians may be cloudy due to the yeast. In general, if it tastes good, drink it.

 

I love them, if the taste and smell are also exceptional of course. Some of my absolute favorite beers have been extremely cloudy IPAs that are full of fresh and intense flavors. For me, the chewy mouthfeel can turn a pretty low ABV IPA into a sipper, one that I really slow down to enjoy.

On the other hand, I recently had a cloudy IPA that was surprisingly bland, probably due to its age. I was expecting something much more flavorful given the appearance and so was pretty disappointed. The haze raises my expectations but the beer still needs to pull through in other respects.

 

I have had shitty cloudy IPAs and shitty clear IPAs.

I have had great cloudy IPAs and great clear IPAs.

I probably prefer the cloud look in IPAs, but there is nothing more beautiful to me than an estery kolsch so clear, you can barely see it.


Cloudiness has nothing to do with chewiness, flavor, or aroma. Anything otherwise is your eyes deceiving your tongue.

 

Clarity is at the bottom of my list for preferable characteristics for beer. I'll drink it if it looks like mud but tastes like it's supposed to. But I suppose that's like saying that clarity isn't even on my list at all.

 

Echoing the...

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...sediments of others, I have no particular problem with some haze or cloudiness. In some cases, that can make the beer especially pleasing from an aesthetic standpoint.

However, I draw the line with--as @utopiajane puts it--"snow globe" floaties (as can often be found in Heady Topper), or even worse, the the kind of cloudiness you get from pouring out the dregs of your [insert Belgian ale] into the glass, creating that beer smoothie look. I know there is nothing wrong with the yeast sediment, but I mentally can't get past the way it looks.

 

Actually there may be something wrong with the yeast sediment. There are a number of brewers who brew with one yeast and bottle condition with another that is good at doing its job, which is finishing off the carbonation and excess sugar and then dropping to the bottom of the bottle where its supposed to stay after it becomes dormant. Pour the yeast or have floaties in your beer, that may be the yeast you are consuming. Won't hurt you, but isn't supposed to be there but changes the flavor.

 

Imagine which way the results of a blind milk test would look if both tasted identical, but one had dark green food coloring added? A lot of people eat/drink with their eyes, affecting their taste experience before it even has been tried. I prefer clear, not enough to let it make an impact, but I have limits too.

 

Whoops! I wasn't very precise with my language--I mean nothing "wrong" with it from the standpoint of harming the drinker. But yes, taste-wise, I imagine it would have an impact.

 

Completely agree to some extent. But I have had super chewy, aromatic, and flavorful IPAs that were super clear.

I am just saying chewy, aromatic, and flavorful are not descriptors relinquished only to cloudy beers.

 

For years, I've been giving extra points for "look" in my reviews for beers that have a hazy, opaque body. Personal preference only, but I love the "glow" that these beers can sometimes give off.

 

For hundreds of years (at least), clarity was viewed as necessary for high quality ales and beers (i.e., including porter). I have read countless condemnations, by brewing writers and drinkers, of cloudy beers in the 1700's-1800's, usually from Britain where top-fermented ales were of course brewed for centuries before they migrated to America. One of the reasons to condition beer for lengthy periods before the use of finings became common was to ensure their clarity. Of course, in practice, this was often not achieved hence the criticism of "muddy" pints of beer. No doubt a lot of cask ale wasn't pin bright but only lightly hazy, I doubt the old writers had these in mind vs. the often heavily turbid beers served today.

While as Jack states, turbidity can result from protein, my own experience convinces me that yeast is usually the explanation.

Most beers will drop bright, or almost, in the bottle after a time. I invite anyone here with two bottles of the same brand stored for weeks or more in their bunker to decant one into a glass so it is bright, and then after shaking (lightly) the other bottle, open it and pour it "all in".

I have done this countless times including blind tastings and always picked the bright one as having the best balance. Of course, the very prevalence of cloudy beers may have inclined part of the market to prefer this taste. But try it yourself and report well and truly here, it will promote the discussion I believe.

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P.S. Weizens and some other styles are exceptions. Yeast and wheat seem to have an affinity, often.

 

tl;dr: Preference for clarity is a bourgeois hangup.