The How My Averagely Perfect American Stout Turned Out Thread

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Feb 22, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,956) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    This is the thread for comments about how your brewing of the BA forum crowd sourced Averagely Perfect American Stout turned out. That is all.
     
  2. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    Brewing it tomorrow, toasted the oats a bit last night and they are in a paper bag awaiting the mash!
     
  3. DrewF

    DrewF Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I brewed it on Feb 9 and will be kegging today. I followed the recipe exactly but my FG is higher than expected, 1.028. I was a little surprised to be off by so much but the gravity has been stable since Feb 19 and it tastes like a fully attenuated beer with crystal malt in it. Does anyone else have an FG yet?
     
    PortLargo likes this.
  4. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    I hope to everything glorious in brewing it doesn't finish at 1.028 for me.

    You did make an appropriate sized starter, right?
     
  5. DrewF

    DrewF Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2010 Pennsylvania

    Yep. Mr Malty sized starter and Vikeman's recommended dose of O2 at pitching. Also ramped fermenter temp to 72F after the first gravity reading.
     
  6. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I'll be kegging mine tomorrow.
     
  7. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    How long, or how toasted did you guys get your oats?

    Mine aren't black, but have a nice even brown layer on them, similar to perhaps... maybe C-20 or C-40
     
  8. DrewF

    DrewF Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I did 30 minutes in a 350 oven.
     
  9. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia


    So we're close. I was doing some potatoes in there the other night at 400.. Did around 20-30 at 400, raking them and moving them around every 5-10 minutes.
     
  10. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,904) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    I was really craving a stout yesterday, which is why I asked about early reports in the other thread. I will need to enjoy this homebrew vicariously, at least for several weeks. Did find a Wisconsin stout that I liked though, from Sand Creek.
     
  11. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    I'd be happy to send out bottles ( along with some locals ) to anyone else who brews this. Give me around a month to get it done, kegged and I'll bottle some. Perhaps with my new whiz-bang beer gun I'm gonna buy.
     
    azorie likes this.
  12. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,500) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society

    So was I. Stayed up late studying for calculus III with a really pretty girl last night*, and by the time I was done it was almost breakfast time. Lucky me, I had a founder's breakfast stout handy. Then, this morning when I woke up, I had a bomber of lagunitas cappuccino stout. Breakfast of champions. :grinning:

    *when I think of how many friday and saturday nights I've spent with this very pretty girl studying calculus, it's very depressing. At least I went to a concert with her once, but that's mostly just a consolation prize which helps me avoid being kicked out of the cool kid's club completely, but doesn't get me off probation. :rolling_eyes:
     
  13. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I went with a lighter toast. I tried light, med, and med dark. The lighter roast had a cereal flavor, mostly cheerios. The medium had a popcorn flavor and the darker just seemed flat and roasted. I need to dig up my notes. But I ended up mixing all three toasts and using them I think it was something like 20% dark (light brown), 20% medium, and 60% light. I'll be sampling later today when I keg this batch. I'll post status.
     
  14. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    Mine are between cheerios and popcorn-ish.. Good description, as it's what came to my mind too!
     
  15. CerealKillerKP

    CerealKillerKP Initiate (0) May 24, 2009 Kentucky

    Dude, you're being the definition of a Nice Guy TM here. Let her know you're interested! Invite her over to drink home brew and watch a movie or something and see how it goes bro! Carpe diem.
     
  16. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    So I finally got to have my first pint of the APA stout. I'm very happy with it, it is delicious and I've honestly never tasted anything quite like it. It's very thick, silky, chewy and full. Very black and opaque. Good head retention, not a huge head, but lasting. This is definitely a hop forward beer, but I would not call it a Black IPA, there's just way too much mouth feel for that. The hops in the aroma seem rich and citrusy, more on the orange side of things. The up front flavor is also orangey to me, but the roasty chocolate/coffee notes do come out in the backgound. The bitterness and sweetness seem to be well balanced, and drinkable. However, I don't think the toasting of the oats added anything, I can't pick up any notes from that. If anything my only critique would be to get better balance with the hop flavor, maybe less hop flavor or a touch more roastiness. But overall I think this was a success, and I'm interested in hearing what others have come up with. Oh btw, I didn't quite hit my FG, I ended up with 1.016, I mashed at 158F.
     
  17. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    I just checked mine tonight, finished at 1.019. Both US05 and 1084 got the same attenuation. I overshot the OG however, by 2-4 points as well off the top of my head. I can't honestly taste of difference in the two, other than I think the US05 has more hop flavor/aroma to it. I fermented both pretty cool.

    There's a good bit of hop forward notes to the beer. Has a piney/orange/citrus note in the nose, followed by some earthy dirt and some roast. I like the way it smells, but makes you back up and wonder if it's a stout. It's got a nice full mouthfeel despite not being carbed, and is pretty smooth and oily.

    That said, it's a mighty fine beer, and something that fits the style. I think with time the hop flavor will fade a bit, and I'm curious to see how it does. I'm also interested to find if others hit the numbers we went for, as it seems everyone is coming up with a higher FG.

    I mashed at 156 or 157* I believe, as I don't have my notes in front of me.

    Oh yeah, and like Naugled, the toasted oats added next to nothing to the beer. I've brewed many beers with plenty of oats, and never toasted them until now, and simply can't taste or find a difference in them.
     
  18. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,904) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    But it did make your kitchen smell good, right?
     
  19. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    Seize the carp!
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,956) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Hmmm... Looks like you were one gravity point higher than the target. And Naugled's was lower than target.

    Both of these things would have increased your FG (above target). But even without them, 1.019 vs. a target of 1.018 is noise. It will be interesting to analyze everyone's results together at the end of this, adjusting for deviations from the recipe, and see if the average result is high or low.
     
  21. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Poo-Bah (2,500) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society

    I've ordered the recipe. It shall be brewed this week.
     
  22. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,956) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Yesterday a local BA and I drank a couple bottles of Naugled's batch. (Thanks Sir!) It was quite good. I think he nails the description pretty well in the post quoted above. The only thing I would add is that I got a little malty/breadiness in the aroma. My friend immediately said banana bread, though that's not the descriptor I would have came up with independently. Overall, this was definitely an American stout in flavor and aroma, if not (arguably for some) in ingredients.
     
    inchrisin, Slatetank, MrOH and 2 others like this.
  23. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    Here are some judging notes from a recent competition that I entered this beer in...as well as my comments.

    Aroma:
    Judge1: Slammed in the nose with tropical fruit, papya? kiwi? Really lacking in any malt aroma.
    Judge2: Strong tropical fruit aroma. New Zealand hops? Roasted malt aroma is lower than expected
    Me: Interesting so much tropical aroma was noted, but I do agree that the hops dominate the aroma. Is it worth fixing? Could lower the aroma hopping or maybe do some late steeping of roasted malts? I'd probably start with the latter.​

    Appearance:
    Judge1: Dark brown with a tiny tan head if you force it, but doesn't last
    Judge2: Light tan head with large bubbles dissipates to a ring around the glass. Dark, almost black.
    Me: Beer was bottled from the keg, fairly young, could probably tighten up my bottling procedure as well. Currently from the keg this beer pours with a thick frothy head that lasts to the bottom.​

    Flavor:
    Judge1: That kiwi aroma carries over into the flavor which is really weird for the style but not unpleasant.
    Judge2: The tropical fruit dominates the flavor. It's pleasant but not really the citrus/resin expected. Roast bitterness is evident as is hop bitterness.
    Me: Maybe more Chinook and less Willamette next time to get more of the expected American hop profile? However, I like this profile so I probably would keep it the same. Maybe the Willamettes are very tropical this year, all hops used were 2013 crop.​

    Mouthfeel:
    Judge1: Medium bodied (too light for style) with medium low carbonation, light alcohol warmth
    Judge2: Medium body. Some roast bitterness in finish. Medium carbonation.
    Me: I disagree on the medium too light for style body. This thing is chewy IMO. I think they were either tired, or just had an example of an extremely full bodied beer. I would call this medium to full bodied.​

    Overall Impression:
    Judge1: As I look at the commercial examples I'm hard pressed to find anything remotely similar. I have a feeling this would have scored much higher as a 13D Foreign Extra Stout.
    Judge2: The tropical fruit seems unusual for the style. This may score better as a tropical stout in the Foreign Extra Stout category. A good beer and pleasant to drink, but wrong style.
    Me: I'm not sure if it would have done any better in the Foreign Extra Stout category. Tropical fruit flavors do not make a tropical stout. I can't think of a commercial example that tastes anything like this. But I guess it is a broader category.​

    Both judges are experienced and BJCP recognized. There was not a single comment or check for any flaws (except for the carbonation level), so points were mostly style points. Judge1 gave it 27, and Judge2 a 31.
    I still have about 1/2 corny of this left and it is holding up well. The hops are definitely subsiding but still dominate and delicious. It's a joy to drink and gets great reactions from the crowd, I'm glad I brewed this one.
     
  24. PortLargo

    PortLargo Devotee (483) Oct 19, 2012 Florida

    Thanks for posting the judges notes. I can not imagine both judges getting so much tropical fruit (kiwi?) and so little malt aroma. Just reviewed the recipe again and there wasn't that much Willamette and pretty sure Chinook didn't add fruit aroma. I've used 2013 Willamette that was nothing like your results. Is it possible for a hop variety to be that measurably different from suppliers? Or could the tuity-fruity be from the yeast? Wyeast says to expect fruit and complex esters from 1084 . . . but "slammed in the nose" seems like a stretch.
     
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  25. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,956) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Having had a bottle from Naugled's batch, I'd have to guess the judges were having a rough day. Naugled's original description (a few posts up) is more accurate, at least for the sample I drank.
     
  26. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    I was surprised by the tropical fruit, but not by the other comments. Basically, how I thought the recipe would turn out. Granted other people have tried it, and came away with a different impression.

    Thanks for posting the results.
     
  27. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    I get the citrusy nose, mine has it. Tropical fruit mine is not. Plenty of roasty bitterness.

    Mines not a hearty and heavy body though, medium body to it. I also ended up around 2-3 points higher FG than you did.

    I will also say that I find the US05 version to taste better, IMO. Surprisingly enough, I've never done a stout with US05, and I think it's nice and clean and lets me play with grain and hops more. I get a slight fruity english character with the Irish ale, which is fine, but maybes thats what they are picking up on?
     
  28. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (882) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    Thanks for posting the judges' comments. I wonder if the "tropical fruit" could be a fermentation temperature thing? Although both @Naugled and @VikeMan say they don't get that flavor.

    I just put my keg of the 1084 version in the kegerator tonight (no room for the 1968 version), really looking forward to trying this.
     
  29. TastyAdventure

    TastyAdventure Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2012 Kentucky

    Yeah, frikin hop heads got ahold of the recipe. Ridiculous. Al those late addition/flame out hops, in a stout?? Wtf??? Surprised they didn't vote to dry hop it...
     
  30. b-one

    b-one Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 California

    Been away too long from the forums, dammit. Been looking for one to brew this weekend before I go for the Pliny the Younger clone. This may be it.

    P.S. What no dry hopping? :wink:
     
  31. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia


    It's not overly "hoppy", but tosses that citrusy hop note when you take a good smell from a fresh pull of the tap handle. A small dryhop of something earthy wouldn't have been too far out there, IMO.
     
  32. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
    Deactivated

    I guess you've never brewed a russian imperial stout or drank a Surly Darkness... its hoppy as hell and delicious. Stouts can have hops, and if you look at the BJCP guidelines, you can see that for homebrewing competitions, american stouts are expected to be hoppy.
     
  33. TastyAdventure

    TastyAdventure Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2012 Kentucky

    I love Old Raspy and Sam Smiths oatmeal stout, my favs... Based off what I just read about how this recipe turned out, this "stout" doesn't sound like its for me...
     
  34. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I agree this beer is nothing like Old Rasp or Smith's Oatmeal. The only beer I can recall that reminds me of this flavor profile was Goose Island's Night Stalker, which was a super hoppy RIS. This beer isn't as big, but the hop profile reminds me of Stalker.... I miss that beer.
     
  35. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,956) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    But then again, neither of those beers would fit the American Stout category.
     
    jbakajust1 and Naugled like this.
  36. b-one

    b-one Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 California

    Brewing it up this weekend.
     
  37. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (882) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    So, I am finally drinking this beer. I have the 1084 in front of me. I also did 5 gallons with 1968 but I don't have room in the keezer right now.

    I ended up with 11 gallons @ 1.070 split into two buckets, I never measure final gravity so I am not sure where it ended. Both fermented 64-66 degrees in my basement (no real fluctuations). I kegged after fermenting for 1 month and both kegs were then carbed and left in my garage for the last couple of weeks (temperature fluctuated between 30-60).

    A: Very black with a thin light-tan head, a small amount of lace.
    S: I am surprised how little the Chinook comes through, mostly just a hint of fruitiness (not even citrus) under the very distinct chocolate. Definitely no tropical fruits and not the black IPA I was afraid of.
    T: The chocolate is most apparent with a hint of roastiness in the background. Again, the Chinook is very well hidden. There are some fruits mixed in, but I could easily blame that on yeast or dark caramel malts if I did not know better. No idea that oatmeal is there from a flavor point of view.
    M: Slightly creamy, but not too "rich" or tongue coating, the carbonation helps this go down very easy. My guess is the mouthfeel is being driven by the oatmeal, there is a hint of slickness on the tongue.
    O: I like this a lot, some what surprised because I was one of those who thought this had train-wreck written all over it. There is just enough sweetness along with hops that it is not a roast bomb, it goes down very easy, I will happily have a second one. All in all, a very good stout.

    So, what would I change?
    I would not bother toasting the oats and I might increase the amount of oats a little.
    I would like a little more roast flavor so I would probably increase the roasted barley, but more likely would add some black patent.
    I think the Willamette could/should probably be doubled or swapped for something a little more powerful. I would probably not change the Chinook at all.
    The only other obvious thing to possibly change is the yeast. I am looking forward to the 1968 version and will try to remember to report back.

    Thanks @VikeMan for herding all the opinionated cats in this project. I think this and the APA show that there is at least a little bit of wisdom in a crowd :slight_smile:
     
    Naugled and PortLargo like this.
  38. b-one

    b-one Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 California

    Brewed it today. A little low on the OG (1.062). Raw tastes good.
    Then the brewing debil took hold of me and I combined the second runnings with another light mash in (5 lbs 2-row and the remainder of my other ingredients - oats + a little black). 1.042 OG and a light Stout?
     
  39. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    Brewed on March 1, kegged March 14.

    Look:
    Pours a deep black, looking at the edges of the glass it is clear, with deep garner highlights, though you can't see through it due to the darkness. Thick brown head stays throughout the whole drink leaving thick lacing all the way down. (3/3)

    Aroma:
    First thing to jump from the glass is a burst of Chinook hops, citrus, pine, and earthy Willamette hops. Quickly followed by chocolate malt and day old coffee, toffee, bit of toast. Nutty yeast, light esters. Hops are forward, but not dominant. Malt is complex and dark, just not as roasty as I would like. I am wondering if this is from using the higher roasted Crisp as it seems to have burned raisin notes more than coffee or roast. (8/12)

    Taste:
    First sip reveals nutty yeast and bread dough, followed by earthy hops, touch of citrus, toasty malt, toffee, coffee, bitter chocolate. Hops, malt, and yeast are all balanced. Hop forward for a stout which is good for style, but not forward enough to breach IPA range. Still slightly out of wack though, something no blending well. (11/20)

    Mouthfeel:
    Medium body, silky on the tongue, medium carbonation, balanced bitterness, it's higher, but not bracing. Finish is semi-dry, it is full and rich but the roasted grains and hops give a drier impression. (4/5)

    Overall:
    Early on this beer was out of balance, too much hops and the ones used were not meshing well. A month in the keg at cold temps has rounded all the flavors out some. The yeast, hops, and malts blend well with just enough of each. The toasting of the oats doesn't seem to add much except some toasty notes, which could be from the Munich too. Makes for a nice Spring beer, not sure it makes for the best one though. Something is slightly off, I think it is the Chinook as they are a little harsh here (odd since I love them in my IPAs), and possibly the choice of roast barley. (6/10)

    (32/50)
     
    Naugled, utahbeerdude and wspscott like this.
  40. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    We'll see what some BJCP judges think of this in a few weeks. Entering it into a local comp. I had really good feedback from the big dawgs in our Home Brew Club, including Denny Conn. Killed my keg to get the bottles to enter. Luckily I had 4 bottles so I have one left to compare to.
     
    Naugled likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.