The Next "White Whales"?

It's going to be some lambic of some kind. Stouts go downhill too fast. Although, they still become whales, but they become silly to trade for (I'm looking at you Rare).

 

nonsense. go buy some pappy and put the same ratio of it into beer as you'd get in a BA beer. report back to me and feel embarrassed (unless the power of suggestion has carried you into the feeling of success once again).

that the pappy version of some beer is better is not weird. you don't have to taste every variety of eclipse to understand why different barrels w/ different bourbons but the same base beer will taste different. but to correlate better bourbon with better resulting beer is kind of silly, especially if you understand why pappy is a better bourbon.

p.s. reiterating that the assumption in the review i mentioned that pappy changed the beer's mouthfeel is the height of not knowing what one's talking about.

 

they plan to brew more, release larger amounts.

 

You sound moronic.

 

i'm not the one who claims that a droplet of $200 bourbon that's basically just smoother with a longer finish than $50 bourbon transforms a high gravity imperial stout.

edit: p.s. i'd be curious if i'm the only one in this argument who's actually had pappy.

 

please keep it civil people. tone down the attitudes.

 

I don't know why but in my experience beers aged in Pappy barrels tend to taste better than other variants. 08 Pappy Eclipse, for instance, is far and away the best variant I've tried. That being said, Rare is the only Pappy aged beer that actually tastes like Pappy(yes, I've had Pappy a few times, including the different ages). Supposedly King Henry was aged in similar barrels or at least barrels that held Rare and I didn't get the same spirit flavor. Maybe the BCBS changed the flavor profile but in my opinion, KH tasted like a really boozy, quality bourbon BA beer but it's nowhere near in the same league as Rare.

I haven't tried nor do I own any of the Voodoo Barrel Room Collection beers so I really can't comment on them. Just wanted to share my experience with Pappy BA beers.

 

I do have this beer, but have zero intention of trading it. Ever. But after tasting Luscious with a year on it, and knowing only 700 bottles ever existed, and prob. more than half of em consumed, it is certain to become a whale. The beer is beyond delicious at this point, into a whole new realm of stout greatness.

 

My 2009 IRS would like to discuss this idea with you. I am betting it could convince you to change your mind.

 

Let's suppose a brewer makes one batch of imperial stout. He is in possession of two Buffalo Trace barrels. He splits the beer into the two barrels and lets it age for a year. He then bottles the beer without blending the barrels. If he deceitfully claims that one half-batch was aged in Pappy barrels, would that half-batch get higher scores?

There are so many variables involved that its obvious the two beers would be distinct from each other. I tend to believe that those distinctions of the faux-Pappy stout would be claimed to be superior based solely on expectation.

 

Did you know which beer was which? (See also: blind test, confirmation bias.)

 

Yes, but it wasn't close. I'd be happy to do a blind tasting if someone provides the beers in question

Going into it I didn't have super high expectations of the 2 versions. I figured they'd be pretty similar. Both were really good, but the PVW was just outstanding.

This was just a general observation. Gueuzes clearly holds up better than stouts do as a style. Some stouts hold up longer than others. I have heard IRS holds up quite well. I'm only 23, and I started a vertical when I could first buy it, but it's only 2 years so far. A few more years, and I'll see how it holds up.

 

I just think it's funny. Anyone that has had all the black magick variants would not be having this dialogue as they we're ask very different.

Pappy being by far the best by a good margin. Enough that I traded away multiples of the other 2 variants and traded for a dozen of the PVW all based on taste and not hype.

 

I have to agree that the PvW Black Magick really is better than the other two. I can't "taste the pappy" or whatever, but having all 3 in a week I thought the apple brandy and buffalo trace ones were very good to great, where the pappy one was really great.

I don't think too many beers coming out right now that are in obvious high demand are destined to become true wales. Not everything can be a wale. So, now that there are 500+ relevant releases every year, it's both impossible to track them all down and impossible to guess which ones are going to be most desirable 3-5 years down the line. Most of the stuff on the wale list is on there because it's old and never going to be/can't be made again (Loerik, Millenium Gueuze, Blauw, etc.), where as a lot of the newer stuff on that list is sketchy at best because it either could be made again, won't age particularly well, or both.

 

I am pretty consistently amazed how much quantity of really good beer people are willing to give up for "batch 1 _________" though. KBBS, Mornin Delight, BA Abraxas, BA Mex Cake, etc are all absolutely getting made again. It makes no sense at all to give up triple $4$+ of limited and delicious beer for one bottle. I think all traders, to a point, are guilty of impatience, but the ISO:FT board over the last four months has been lather, rinse, repeat:

1. New release announced/sold with small bottle count
2. Crazy ISO pre-trades (look at CD7) or eye-popping requests for FT bottles
3. Bottles held by some people in hopes the price goes up even more
4. People move on to the next thing and things get more reasonable, but still mostly ridiculous.

Breweries aren't stupid. If something is really, really good in addition to there being a heavy demand for it, and they can sell that beer at a high margin, they're going to make more of it. If they don't, there's probably a good reason for it and it's not just spurning the BA community. And, in those cases where they don't, that demand doesn't disappear and some other brewery will buy up some pappy barrels and hype the shit out of a stout with vanilla, coffee, chocolate, unicorn tears, chipotle peppers, and angel's wings added...and that one will probably be good too.

 

Stuff transitions on and off the list though. The previous list had a ton of old stouts with a lot of pedigree on it (Darkness 07, DL 04, Kate 06, etc.). However, those will continue to move lower and lower down the list because people no longer want to trade for them because of the reports that have come out about things going downhill, etc. The same will be true for beers like GI Rare.

I would say that old Cantillon/Drie Fonteinen lambic tends to get on the list and stay on the list (unless it is made again and then Jean/Armand confirms that it will be made regularly).

"Flavor of the month" imperial stouts and wild ales may get on the list, but they fall off of it with regularity also. Due to, as many have said, their poor aging potential.... which leads me to a small aside.

I feel like 99% of beer is best fresh. The exceptions being very hot imperial stouts and lambic/gueuze.

If you hold onto a "flavor of the month" beer long enough, you run two risks. One, if you end up not trading it and decide to open it at some point down the line, chances are it will be a shell of what it once was. Two, if too many reports come out that its "going downhill", your beer will certainly lose trade value. And if the brewery announces that said beer will be made again, you can forget it, your beer is almost instantly going to be worth "nothing".

All things considered, unless its lambic/gueuze, you're probably better off just drinking the damn thing instead of worrying about whether it'll be the next white whale. Because the answer is... IT WON'T.

 

Personally I find Pappy to be a lot like hyped up limited beers...over rated. Yes, I've had all versions recently and 15 on multiple occasions.

 

pappy 23 is overrated imo. 20 is, however, the best bourbon i've ever had.

 

I can't handle if Vinny does a big batch of large format Beatification. That will ruin my bank account.