The OFFICIAL Kuhnhenn Winter Solstice thread

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by LiquidTable, Nov 7, 2013.

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  1. monitorpop

    monitorpop Disciple (370) Oct 28, 2007 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Todd also told me that the just released 2012 bottles were actually just filled from 2 year old barrels. Looking forward to cracking one open.
    Tony412 likes this.
  2. bierenutz

    bierenutz Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Well that settles it folks...confirmation from a Kuhnhenn employee. You can take that to the bank!
    JohnB87, tommyz, steebo777 and 2 others like this.
  3. szmnnl99

    szmnnl99 Crusader (726) Apr 3, 2006 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    As long as you don't ask again.
    bierenutz and Benny3000 like this.
  4. FEUO

    FEUO Disciple (327) Jul 24, 2012 Ontario (Canada)

    Not to burst anyone's bubble, and hopefully this is different for beer, but most of the barrel characteristics picked up by a spirit in a barrel take place in the first 6 months. There is a significant plateau after that.
    More use a barrel gets (for refills, etc) the less it will impart on the liquid inside (but thats fairly obvious).
    And of course, the quality of oak along with the quality of the previous spirit (bourbon in many cases) inside previously make a big difference.

    I am just relaying info from the master blender at the distillery I work at. These are results founded from his recently completed thesis. But again, thats for DD, not beer. I am only hypothesizing that the results may follow a similar curve. Not saying that an additional year in the barrel won't do something, but it may not be as significant as people may think or hope it does.

    Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.... and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
    aclara, HighWine and steebo777 like this.
  5. Zaphog

    Zaphog Poo-Bah (2,218) Sep 23, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Who gives a shit what the extra year of barrel aging does to the taste... It makes it RARE!!!
  6. iceatalamo

    iceatalamo Initiate (183) Dec 13, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    What are you going to tell us next?

    FEUO, Wade5614, JohnB87 and 4 others like this.
  7. monitorpop

    monitorpop Disciple (370) Oct 28, 2007 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Bourbon County Rare and Founders Devils Cut (2 years in a barrel KBS) being so damn good must have nothing to do with being aged an extra year in the barrel then. Also not sure what makes Scotch aged in a barrel for 20 years smoother than a young version either then.
  8. Marti403

    Marti403 Disciple (328) Jul 23, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Fixed this for you.
    SixThousandDollars, Bung and Zaphog like this.
  9. caber2615

    caber2615 Initiate (160) Oct 7, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Good thing I put my 3 bottles from Saturday with the 6 2012s I had left from last year...I checked and the packaging is exactly the same. I have no way to know which is which at this point...
  10. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    Well then you have to open at least four of them at once to know for sure.
    Benny3000 likes this.
  11. emilyLOVESlime

    emilyLOVESlime Initiate (0) Mar 19, 2009 California

    Any goodies left at the brewery? I'm thinking about making a trip down later this week just to enjoy the beer in a normal bar setting vs. crazy release day.
  12. Tee2Grn

    Tee2Grn Aspirant (288) Nov 6, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I stopped on Monday and they had a lot of bottles left. Of course no BB beers. I was on my lunch so I didn't even bother looking at the tap list.
  13. FEUO

    FEUO Disciple (327) Jul 24, 2012 Ontario (Canada)

    Again, just relaying what my master blender was explaining to a group of us at a tasting at work.
    Spirit will change over time and it will obviously smooth it out. We've all seen that. How much more you are getting from the barrel is likely not noticeable (according to him) once it gets to a certain point. Trust me, we were all surprised that the plateau began at 6 months.

    Based on your simple logic, a beer or whiskey will not change in a bottle over years. Its all barrel influenced, right? Sorry, just having a little fun poking back at you. :slight_smile:

    I guess a PhD ain't worth the paper its written on these days. :wink:

    Honestly, I will get more info once we're back at work.
    aclara likes this.
  14. monitorpop

    monitorpop Disciple (370) Oct 28, 2007 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Sorry, I was not trying to dispute that most barrel notes are imparted within the first 6 months. Just trying to say that there are other benefits to barrel aging for longer periods of time. Aging on oak chips in a non-porous container can impart some nice notes but its missing the other benefits of barrel aging.

    Oak barrels breathe, allowing for a gradual oxidation and evaporation (angels share) which for reason beyond my expertise have been known to improve many beers, whiskeys and wines when aged in them for extended periods of time.
  15. FlandersNed

    FlandersNed Disciple (376) Feb 8, 2009 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    On the subject of extended BA, one of the first BA-4D vintages (2010 or 11) had a second release, the next spring, that spent ~50% more time in the barrels than the one sold at the Solstice event. (They both had the same year printed on the label, (which is why I always mark my bottles separately)). Now I'm curious, going to have to dig them out and try a complete vertical!

    Extended BA does have an impact on beer - not always for the better (Idiot's Drool?) Anyone try the original 2012 BA4D with the 2-year BA version just released yet?
    #575 FlandersNed, Dec 25, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013
  16. luniz

    luniz Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2013 Michigan

    i was 249, got everything except french toast & had a bunch of good beer friday complaints from me, lookin forward to summer solstice too. gonna open some cherry browns for xmas.
  17. FlandersNed

    FlandersNed Disciple (376) Feb 8, 2009 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    What if all four he tried were from the 6 left from LY?

    Best bet is to look at the markings on the bottle bases and/or bottoms. Definitely not foolproof, but sometimes there's consistency that might differentiate the bottlings.
  18. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    Damn, I thought he said three of each.
  19. caber2615

    caber2615 Initiate (160) Oct 7, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Just checked, exact same bottles.
  20. GrizXTKEX519

    GrizXTKEX519 Aspirant (250) Feb 22, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

  21. aclara

    aclara Initiate (154) Mar 16, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Wish there was a "hate" , "like" option.....Which one would you hit?
  22. FEUO

    FEUO Disciple (327) Jul 24, 2012 Ontario (Canada)

    Sorry to possibly ruin people's naive theories on barrel aging. Again, its a plateau. Did not say a complete flatline. Just pointing out that its been scientifically proven that most flavor characterists are imparted earlier in the aging cycle than later. I am also not disputing that aging longer will impart barrel characteristics, but what happens over time is less and less.
    Working at a distillery where we age double distillate from 3 to 20 years it was a key study done by one of our own. Yes, we are more commercial, so science and how the results impact the bottom line are extremely important. Not a gut feel or theory being used.
    I am actually very interested to see what he has to say about the type of spirit being used.
    Looking forward to being back at work and asking for more data and info from our master blender.

    Happy New Year! See y'all around Kuhnhenn in 2014!
    tommyz, aclara, Marti403 and 2 others like this.
  23. Marti403

    Marti403 Disciple (328) Jul 23, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Can't argue science!
    FEUO likes this.
  24. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Facts shamcts. You can prove anything you want with facts.
    lonewolf371 and FEUO like this.
  25. MajorBuckeye

    MajorBuckeye Aspirant (293) Jan 8, 2012 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    I hear the jury's still out on science. #GOB
    FEUO and Marti403 like this.
  26. aclara

    aclara Initiate (154) Mar 16, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

  27. basickness

    basickness Aspirant (206) Apr 20, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    any 2014 news yet??
  28. BadBreath

    BadBreath Initiate (142) Jun 12, 2014 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    It's on the 19th and 20th
  29. Jas45678

    Jas45678 Defender (618) May 11, 2013 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Believe they mentioned prepacked allotments, so it might be a little different this year. But it's Kuhnhenn, we will see.
  30. luniz

    luniz Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2013 Michigan

    19-20th, cellared fri, bottles sat 11am, sign up behind bar
  31. steebo777

    steebo777 Zealot (511) Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

  32. LiquidTable

    LiquidTable Initiate (0) May 3, 2011 Michigan

    All details so far are on the website and Facebook. More info will be added as I confirm details.

    And yes, pre-packed 6-packs, just like we've done for all other releases in the past year. Based on our own observances in execution, and on customer feedback, this is proving to be the way to go.
    We are releasing 6 beers for the bottle release Saturday AM. A pre-packed 6-pk contains 1 bottle each of all six beers. Limits are still being evaluated, but most likely 1 case total per person - again, more info as soon as we set it in stone.

    We'll also have food onsite all weekend, including a food truck starting at 9am Sat (though we won't open until 11) - also portajohns for those patiently waiting in line. Not super fancy, but kind of a necessity.
  33. RyanMM

    RyanMM Initiate (169) Mar 12, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Every other brewery that does this sort of thing can manage to create an order fulfillment system that makes sense. In fact, Kuhnhenn did a pretty good job back in 2011, and 2012 wasn't too bad either.

    This might be the first year I skip the bottle line or skip Solstice altogether. It was fun while it lasted. I'm sure you'll have lots of other people and won't miss me, but I just thought I'd tell you these are the kind of decisions that will lose you this long-time customer.
  34. jaheussner

    jaheussner Initiate (0) Dec 25, 2008 District of Columbia
    Beer Trader

    Wholeheartedly agree with this.

    Having never administered a bottle release, I have no idea what the correct route is, but I know that making people spend money on beers they've no desire to buy because the brewery is unable to fulfill custom orders in a timely manner is a way to make a lot of loyal people annoyed.
  35. jaheussner

    jaheussner Initiate (0) Dec 25, 2008 District of Columbia
    Beer Trader

    Though, I'll absolutely be around for the tap list the night before- no muss no fuss, just great beer.
    RyanMM likes this.
  36. sblanton83

    sblanton83 Aspirant (217) May 29, 2013 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Ugh, pre-packed 6-packs. So now I'm forced to buy bottles I don't want. I'd like to know where they get these statistics from. I find it hard to believe that based on customer feedback this was the preferred way of doing things. I have never seen any other brewery do this...they all let you buy what you want up to a specific allotment with zero issues filling orders.
    #596 sblanton83, Dec 4, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  37. HighWine

    HighWine Initiate (146) Dec 11, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    The biggest issue I saw last year was that there were a lot of people who wanted max allotments and those were still being fulfilled by hand, in sequence, and from various locations in the back. If you just make up boxes of max allotments ahead of time and maybe have a separate pick up area for them, that would go a long way to speeding things up.

    Also, don't recall how payment worked but getting prepayment via a handheld device from those in line will further expedite things, too.
  38. hamsterhero515

    hamsterhero515 Initiate (163) Jan 19, 2013 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Based on how Kuhnhenn has handled their business, pricing and latest releases, I highly doubt "statistics" come into play. More of a coin flip decision I would say, or putting a lot of options in a had and blindly picking.
  39. mike409

    mike409 Aspirant (220) Jan 25, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    My 2 cents.
    Bottle the major beers most folks want and place in 4 or 6 packs.

    Use brown paper tickets and do ala KBS and sell a ticket that gureentes X amount of beer, must show proof id, must pick up day of, must pay CASH! The fee from the ticket goes to a local warren or Michigan charity.
    raymo55, ntimblack, deuce9259 and 9 others like this.
  40. steebo777

    steebo777 Zealot (511) Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    Stoked for Friday nights party!

    Not stoked for the Saturday bottle release, probably skip it.
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