The Problem with American Craft

That's pretty interesting. Did you find that there was a difference between "available" (meaning only at certain times for a short while) vs. truly available? Maybe we can get Cantillon (or insert other brewer) here, but it's a hassle, so if you could get it easily in Belgium I'd call that a big plus.

But as to your larger point selection has definitely improved greatly, but what I like better is that the quality has improved as well- even within the last 10 years.

 

I think you cannot complain too much, because you have Jungle Jim's, which has one of the largest selections of imports and craft U.S. beers I've ever seen. I agree that it is too bad that Cincinnati couldn't maintain its brewing history, but when Hudepohl is part of your local color, perhaps that isn't all bad.

 

Yes. During the time I was there I could have consumed massive amounts of Cantillon (obviously not all of the different beers they produce since some are seasonal, but plenty of the basics and with a visit to the Brewery it was also possible to have their unblended lambic) or the three Westvletern beers. Stuff like De Dolle Dulle Teve can be found in both places if one knows where to look around here or is willing to order a case.

 

I guess without the OP's ramble. The problem with American Craft is there are too many inconsistent and mediocre breweries who are trying to put too much on their plate and being in too many places before they should ever have left the home plate. But, that's also going to be an interesting thing to see unfold in the next few years as these solid 3 star at best breweries with big eyes and little stomachs hit the five year mark while getting the once over and start selling up.

 

American Craft has probably never been better. We're living in a Golden Age and people still bitch...

 

Most Americans would be stunned by the beauty of Cologne, and places all across Europe. The great beer is a bonus and not the draw.

 

You are a knowledgeable guy, too, but you have never been to Germany, never drunk the beers you are holding up as examples of the types of beers you are comparing hoppy U.S. "craft" pilsners to -- beers which you have also never had.

 

This is from the Oxford Companion in a post made by you last year.

“In 1973 the average German Pilsner would have had a bitterness of 34 IBUs, with extreme samples going as high as 50 IBUs and the low end having only 16 IBUs. There was little change until 1985, but by 1995 the average bitterness was down to 30, and another decade it was 27. Statistics from 2008 indicate an average bitterness of 26.5 IBUs….”

And here's a post from the same thread by Starkbier (is this Jim? His profile says he is a director at Victory):

"<Victory does not publish the IBUs of Prima Pils.

Above 50."

Based on this excerpt from the Oxford, and a post from a director at Victory, 50 IBUs would be as high as German pilsners went in the 1970s and 1980s, and Prima Pils is above 50. Why not use 16 IBUs (the low end) as the representative mark for IBUs from the 1970s then?

Personally, I'd just use the average of 34, and say that Prima is hoppier for the style and call it a day. And whether you want to use 16, 34, or 50 as the benchmark, none of us know what the IBUs of the best German pilsners from today or the 1970s were. Based on the Oxford, the ones from 40 years ago fell between 16 and 50.

 

There is absolutely no need for an individual to travel to Germany to know facts. I have measured IBUs of German brewed Pilsners. Traveling to Germany is absolutely not germane here.

An individual traveling to Germany to drink beer is anecdotal.

 

Since I have posted what you have quoted I have learned more facts. Have you not been reading?

There have been German brewed Pilsners which have hop levels greater than Prima Pils.

 

I hope these (^^^) posts never get deleted. The perfect absurdity they illustrate should be preserved for future BA generations.

 

Yes, I have. And from your quotation, it stated the highest in the 1970s was 50 IBUs. Which, as you'll read in the post below by Starkbier, would make Prima a tad higher than the highest of that time. But, according to the two beers you cherry picked, not the highest of the last forty years.

And I asked, if we can use two of the highest recorded values to claim Prima is representative of a common German pilsner, why can't I use the lower value of 16 IBUs from the 1970s?

I think Weihenstephan Pilsner is a wonderfully crafted pils, and I've seen it listed at 26 IBUs. For my palate, 25 - 40ish seems to be what many that I love clock in at. Prima is higher, doesn't make it a terrible beer, I think it's excellent. But to me, it's a far hoppier pilsner than most. Again, as you'll read below from Starkbier, the beer was created to be a bit different, a "twist" as he states. Nothing wrong with that, I simply don't go around telling those that ask me that Prima is representative of your average German pilsner, from forty years ago or today.

"FWIW a long time ago I know Prima had been tested at 52 IBUs, so back then it was just north of the BJCP limit of 50. Not sure what the latest specs are..... Pretty sure Prima won a silver at the Beerstar awards several years back. Prima is just another example of our own twist on traditional beers, similar and inspired by but in its own way rather unique."

 

FWIW, I have joked before that Prima Pils is the grandfather to the current wave of IPLs. I won't claim to be an expert on beer taxonomy, but Prima is certainly on the very high end of the bitterness spectrum for pilsners.

 

When your favorite team is on a losing streak.

 

Ahh I live in paradise, I never walk into a bar or gas station for that matter and find myself without great options. It is very rare that I drink something mediocre and it is never caused by lack of selection. ILovermont

 

I am not sure what you suggest with this.

I am tempted to believe you make the perfect the enemy of the good with this, but perhaps you had something more specific in mind in the way of recommendations for how the problem you see can be solved differently than how it is solving itself now.

 

My only gripes with the craft industry are shitty distribution, overpriced bombers, and online beer prices.

 

As long as we have many, many choices the market is healthy and I don't see a problem. There are trends in any market (like coffee stout) that may change or fade with time but as long as we have variety all is well. That we also may have bad beers on the market is not really a good indication of a problem. Listening to the stories of many of the established brewers is a history of inconsistency and trial and error in the early days. You may find some adventure in going through the good and bad stages of a brewer's or a beer's development as they mature. They may fold and go away or they may become the next Russian River.

 

We are awash with American Craft beer here in Oz and I have to say that most of the styles, I can find here brewed locally with the exception of BA Stouts. The overwhelming majority of US beers here are hop driven beers. The Belgian beers are far more varied in style and flavour (not that they are considered "craft"). We get a great variety of Lambics, Tripels, Blondes, Wits, Oud Brunes, Quads, BPA's etc. I must say that I have found some US beers overhyped (in turn I have also had some great US beers). Most of the overhyped US beers tend to be hop driven varieties.

Good discussion point anyway !

 

I've gotta say, unlike many here in this thread, I feel one of the major problems with the industry/culture these days is the immense amount of variety. I'm not sure which sociologist/other-kind-of-social-commentator said it, but we now live in an age in which we are not only spoiled with choice, but often deceived and paralyzed by it. There is often so much variety that we cannot hope to fully comprehend it, instead retreating to our old stand-bys. At the same time, we feel privileged to have the outrageous variety, the outrageous amount of potential choices we do have, if for no other reason than the potential of it.

Is this situation better than it has been in the past few decades? Sure, I'll give you that. But I think we are going too far in the other direction. As another person posted above, we here in the Chicagoland area can walk into pretty much any Binny's store and be nigh overwhelmed by the choices facing us in the beer aisle. I have noticed that many (if not most) stores, not just Binny's locations, opt for more options, more offerings from more breweries, than a carefully curated and slightly smaller selection, and they are being praised for it. What this leads to is a large amount of beer that sits on shelves for far too long (my nicely-discounted bottles of very long-in-the-tooth FW Opal and Duckstein Weizen Cuvee from the Binny's in Niles are perfect examples), strange pricing situations, and increasingly cutthroat competition among not only brewers but distributors for consumers' attention.

The same can easily be said of bars, where larger numbers of taps tend be seen as more desirable than smaller, better-curated tap lists. We have been convinced that so many more choices at all times is a better situation than just a small amount of (preferably rotating) quality options. Just because I can buy/order dozens of different IPAs at any given location doesn't mean I'm living in a promised land, just that I'm living in an area rife with entrepreneurship.

As an aside, I also see some weird things coming out of smaller, local breweries in terms of packaging and pricing. Rather than build up a reputation based on quality beers on tap around the area, I'm seeing high-priced bombers and 4-packs of just another pale ale or IPA (occasionally with some gimmicky added ingredient) just spring up out of nowhere. Tested breweries like Revolution and Tighthead are vying for attention with relatively untested (and higher-priced) offerings from Only Child, Middle Brow, 51st Ward, Arcade, and plenty others that want to follow in the wake of Pipeworks. (Speaking of which, I kind of like the scattershot, nigh-ADD brewing of Pipeworks with regard to styles and recipes, but I also kind of hate the attempt by just about every store that wants to try to keep up with every single release, resulting in a mass of random bombers taking up a lot of shelf space with relatively low turnover. A sadly strong example of my complaints above...) This might not seem to much of an issue, what with the constant replies of "Well, just don't pay any mind to them, then, gawd!" Sure, but it doesn't help anybody that these beers are being actively stacked in abundance at many stores, not only taking up valuable real estate for an inordinate amount of time, but also drawing potential customer attention away from the quality beers and contributing to customers' browsing fatigue from far too many choices at hand.

To put it more succinctly, maybe this huge expansion of choice isn't quite what it's cracked up to be, no matter how good it may be/sound.